Perhaps so, but for the most part I think of scientists as intellectually honest, as doing as good a job as they know how to do, and as willing to change their minds in the face of contrary evidence.
-- Russ On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Phil Henshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Russ, > > Oh, just that scientists appear to be one of the main violators of your > self-awareness principle. Scientists tend to describe the physical world > as if they are unaware that science constructs descriptive models of things > far too complex to model, that might behave differently from any kind of > model we know how to invent. That has us spending a disproportionate > amount of time looking into our theories for the behavior of the world > around us (under the streetlight for the keys lost in the alley) and letting > our skills in watching physical systems atrophy. > > > > Do you see the connection? Is it partly accurate? > > > > Phil Henshaw > > > > *From:* Russ Abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2008 4:04 PM > *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Cc:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Self-awareness > > > > I'm sorry, Phil, I'm missing your point. How does your comment relate to > my argument that self-awareness is a primary good and a possible way around > the difficulty most people have with critical thinking? > > -- Russ > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Phil Henshaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well Russ, what if a group of scientists were to acknowledge that science > actually just seems to be descriptive after all..., and looking through the > holes one seems able to actually see signs of a physical world after all! > Than sort of 'emperor's new clothes' moment might be enough to turn > everyone's attention to value of self-critical thinking wouldn't it?! ;-) > > > > Phil > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On > Behalf Of *Russ Abbott > *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:06 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Willfull Ignorance - Satisfies NickCriteria E > > > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:39 PM, glen e. p. ropella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > So the first step is for each individual to accept their responsibility > to think/speak critically at every opportunity. The next step is to > package such critical thinking inside an infectious wrapper so that > it spreads across all humanity. > > > Yes, if it worked it would be wonderful. I'm cynical enough to doubt that > it would succeed. (1) I doubt that we can find a wrapper infectious enough > and (2) even if we did, I doubt that the population as a whole is capable of > the level of critical thinking that we need. (That's elitism, isn't it.) > > Demagoguery almost always seems to succeed. Can anything be done about > that? More discouraging is that advertising is cleaned up demagoguery. And > advertising will always be with us. > > Just to be sure I knew what I was talking about (critical thinking?) I just > looked up "demagoguery": "impassioned appeals to the prejudices and emotions > of the populace." > > Prejudice and emotion will always be with us -- even the least prejudiced > and least a prisoner of their emotions. Besides, without emotion, we can't > even make decisions. (That's clearly another discussion, but it's worth > noting.) > > So can we really complain about superficial prejudice and emotion when we > are all subject to it at some level? > > Perhaps the need is for self-awareness -- and even more for having a high > regard for self-awareness -- so that one can learn about one's prejudices > and emotions and stand back from them when appropriate. Can we teach that? > (It helps to have good role models. Obviously we have had exactly the > opposite in our current president.) > > Actually, though, a high regard for self-awareness might be easier to teach > than critical thinking. So perhaps there is hope. But the danger there is to > fall prey to melodrama. It's not easy. I'll nominate Glen as a good role > model, though. How can we make your persona more widely visible? > > -- Russ > > >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
