Mea culpa, as well. I may already be exiled.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Nicholas Thompson < [email protected]> wrote: > All right. enough of this, guys. Steve G. is going to blame me for > starting this and exile me again. > > Nick > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Douglas Roberts <[email protected]> > *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]> > *Sent:* 3/30/2009 3:58:44 PM > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Freeman Dyson and Homo Sapiens Exploitatus > > Ok, enough yammering about rutabagas. I don't carrot all for this line of > discussion. > > Promiscuous potatoes, on the other hand... > > Two potatoes sitting one the counter. How can you tell which is the > prostitute? > > The one that says Idaho. > > Bada Bing. > > Profuse apologies; it's been a long day. > > --Doug > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Ted Carmichael <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ah, I think Doug has gotten to the root of the problem. >> -T >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Douglas Roberts <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Excuse me, but what, exactly, does this have to do with rutabagas? >>> >>> [?] >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Nicholas Thompson < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Steve S., >>>> >>>> Now I KNOW you should write an op=ed for the Times. Or better still, >>>> the NEW YORKER. >>>> >>>> The Liberal's Contract with the world: "You let me do to you whatever I >>>> want, and in return I give you my guilt." >>>> >>>> Another Liberal fallacy: "As long as I have contempt for myself, I get >>>> to have contempt for you" >>>> >>>> These are habits of mind I both deplore and indulge in myself in the >>>> same sentences. In fact, in those very sentences. >>>> >>>> But when I am trying to be serious, I return to the existentialism that >>>> I was braised in as a kid.: Choosing is what humans do; we have to take >>>> our >>>> best shot! And if our best science tells us (1) that global warming may be >>>> a terrible problem and (2) that we wont know if it is a terrible problem >>>> until after it is too late to do something, then we ==>must<== take a crack >>>> at solving the problem. >>>> >>>> Note the use of modal language! ("==>must<==") Anytime somebody uses >>>> modal language, they have entered into the world of values ... have, in >>>> fact, taken leave of their sense, gone mad!. I cannot argue for "taking >>>> our >>>> best shot". I just believe that as humans we "should" do it, and hope that >>>> you will join me in this belief, because I would rather be mad together >>>> than >>>> mad alone. This is the best rationale I can muster for supporting >>>> Anti-global warming measures. >>>> >>>> To be serious, we have to escape irony; to escape irony, we have to go >>>> mad. The solution is that easy. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, >>>> Clark University ([email protected]) >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* Steve Smith <[email protected]> >>>> *To: *The Monday Morning MisApplied Complexity Coffee Group >>>> Grope<[email protected]> >>>> *Sent:* 3/30/2009 12:41:38 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Freeman Dyson and Homo Sapiens Exploitatus >>>> >>>> In the spirit of avoiding deadlines by reading things I don't have time >>>> for and writing things I probably should delete before sending, or better >>>> yet, not bother to write: >>>> >>>> I have a love/hate relationship with Freeman Dyson and his work and >>>> legacy. >>>> >>>> I have a love/hate relationship (quite parallel actually) with Global >>>> Climate Change. >>>> >>>> I'm a human-chauvanist (in the sense of Robert Heinlein) and I loathe >>>> myself for it. >>>> >>>> I'm a bleeding heart liberal humanist (in the sense of many of us on >>>> this list) and I loathe myself for it. >>>> >>>> Yes Nick, it is time for another huge helping of starchy, fatty, Ennui, >>>> liberally drizzled with rich, spicy Angst: >>>> >>>> I think it is horribly/wonderfully arrogant of us to think we can do >>>> anything of consequence to this planet. But then "what means >>>> consequence"? After all, even our most devastating nuclear holocaust would >>>> look like a drop in the bucket compared to one good impactor from space (or >>>> any other historical Extinction Event). And at the same time, there is >>>> some evidence that humans, at the end of the last ice age managed to wipe >>>> out most of the megafauna (where did those mastadons, giant tree sloths, >>>> dire wolves and sabertooth cats go anyway?) on the planet, sparing only >>>> those in Africa who (apparently?) adapted to our enhanced predatory >>>> (neolithic?) capabilities as fast as we developed new ones? >>>> >>>> Mother Nature is not really that nice to her children (and I think of us >>>> as some of her most precocious brats to date), starting as early as the >>>> Siderian period, the rise (and cum-uppance) of the Oxygen Extinction. >>>> Stupid Photosynthesizers... didn't they know when to quit? And look what >>>> they ushered in, Oxygen Metabolizers that could run circles around them, >>>> gobble them up like so much fodder and shit them out. The >>>> over-zealousness >>>> of the photosynthesizers lead to the creation of their own new masters, the >>>> oxygen-eating herbivores who in turn provided a substrate for the >>>> carnivores, which collectively provide a great playground for Homo Sapiens >>>> Exploitatus (read Genesis and talk to some fundamentalist Christians if you >>>> don't think this planet was designed to be our playground). >>>> >>>> Like members of the pantheon of Greek (and Roman and Norse) Gods, Ma >>>> Nature gives us the rope to hang ourselves, lets us stew in our own juices, >>>> offers us the best of all parental benefits: "benign neglect". Those >>>> cigarette burns on our cheeks? That just comes from not being careful >>>> enough around adults smoking cigarettes at a cocktail party (gesticulating >>>> wildly in their drunken exuberence). Only the slow and dull-witted let >>>> that happen more than once. Thanks Ma, you are right... I'll be more >>>> careful next time... and thanks again for the chemistry set you gave me for >>>> Xmas and the big box of matches! Have a nice party. >>>> >>>> Whether Al Gore (and the many very serious scientists he quotes, or the >>>> many Chicken Littles who flock to him) are correct or not, I am not sure. >>>> My human-centric arrogance loves the idea that in 100+ years of industrial >>>> activity we have been able to kick the planet's ecological and >>>> climatological balance so far out of whack that we might not recover. My >>>> (somewhat more humble) humanist side abhors that we can so blithely set the >>>> planet on fire (metaphorically) with little thought to the consequence to >>>> all the cute little baby seals and our cute little grandchildren and their >>>> even cuter grandchildren (if we, the species last that long). >>>> >>>> Dyson is not only a deep thinker, but also a grand thinker. What could >>>> something as mundane as "Global Climate Change" mean to someone who has >>>> proposed collecting up all of the planetary and asteroidal material in the >>>> solar system to create a perfect shell at the optimal distance from the sun >>>> to create a perfect "inside out" planet, intercepting every bit of >>>> radiation >>>> energy leaving the sun. If it were set at 1 AU, to simulate the solar >>>> flux >>>> of earth (how terra-centric can we get?) we get a surface something like 55 >>>> million (~2^16 ) times that of earth. The total energy output of the sun >>>> is about 2^43 times our current use. All the engineering problems aside >>>> (hah!) we have a theoretical maximum in this solar system (unless we >>>> decided >>>> we needed to boost the rate of fusion in the sun, if we could) of at least >>>> 55 million times as many people consuming trillions as many times as much >>>> energy per capita (put your money back in GM/Hummer stock)! Given that we >>>> would be living on a shell whose "other side" (a few meters or kilometers >>>> away?) we might even be able to make much more efficient use of the solar >>>> flux than we do now, restricted by having to create/find gradients in our >>>> closed little atmospheric and oceanic shell. Imagine the entire surface of >>>> the sphere a huge set of valved heat-pipes just waiting to provide thermal >>>> gradients for optimal energy utilization to do useful work! Imagine all >>>> that "useful work"! Oh the things we could do! >>>> >>>> Of course Dyson scoffs at our fears of global warming, and suggests we >>>> bio-engineer forests to sequester carbon. He might even be right (that we >>>> have the wherewithal to do such). And if we start doubling our population >>>> every 30 years right away, we can have the population necessary to >>>> maximally >>>> use the Dyson Sphere in a mere 11 generations (330 years!) (check my math >>>> guys). We'd better quit worrying about minor problems like rising sea >>>> levels and desertification of the interior of north America and get >>>> cracking >>>> on the really hard problems like how to gather up and reshape all the >>>> non-solar matter in the solar system. Better kick a few Obama Bucks into >>>> Space Technology, hell kick them all in! >>>> >>>> So, is anthropogenic global climate change real? I fear it is. I hope >>>> it isn't. What I'm equally disturbed about is that *we can't tell!*. I >>>> don't mean that the climate change scientists don't have really good data >>>> and even good models (ice cores from antartica, greenland, etc.). What I >>>> mean is that as a species, as a culture, we are so tangled up in our value >>>> system that something vaguely like half of us (well, half of those living >>>> in >>>> the US, or half of those in the 1st World) insist that *they know for a >>>> fact* that the *other half* are totally insane and being disagreeable for >>>> entirely specious and political reasons. Half of us think the other half >>>> are trying to destroy the biosphere while the other half think that the >>>> *other* other half are trying to destroy the economy. >>>> >>>> Either way, everyone thinks everyone else is trying to destroy humanity >>>> (and life, the universe, and everything)! If the stakes are this high, >>>> why >>>> are we screaming and running in every direction at once? Wait... isn't >>>> that >>>> what we humans (primates, mammals, vertebrates) do? What possible >>>> survival >>>> value is there in that? The canoe is rocking and tipping madly and we are >>>> all rushing to see how far out the side we can hang our bodies to try to >>>> balance the "idiots" hanging out the other side. Anyone who's fallen out >>>> of a canoe knows that a good strategy when things get tippy is to move to >>>> the center and drop down low, not shriek loudly as we manically try to >>>> obtain a dynamic balance with the other shrieking occupants. >>>> >>>> When the wildfire roars through the forest or prarie, the animals, great >>>> and small run blindly in all directions. Those that run away from the >>>> fire, flush more, and give them a direction to run in. The only thing a >>>> smoke-blinded panicked creature needs to know in a wildfire is to run like >>>> hell in the same direction everyone else around you is running (even if >>>> they >>>> are running in circles). By the time the fire is about to consume you, >>>> this >>>> is a good strategy. Back when it was just starting and you were (un)lucky >>>> enough to be near the front, this is as likely to get you killed >>>> immediately >>>> as it is to help you run in a direction where you get to have a chance of >>>> being killed slowly or maybe, just maybe, not at all. We are the ones who >>>> started the fire (if there is one), isn't it amazing that some of us are >>>> eager to run right back into it and toss some more accellerant on it? >>>> Maybe it is just an illusion, a collective hallucination, and isn't it >>>> brave >>>> of those who run directly into it spraying volatile combustibles around >>>> like >>>> holy water? >>>> >>>> In the spirit of hunkering down in the center of the canoe... I think I >>>> should dig out those 5 year old vegetable seeds and start patiently doing >>>> germination tests. Then I should start preparing an area inside my south >>>> facing windows to sprout some starts. In about a week, the soil will be >>>> ready for some light tilling and I could plant those peas and an early crop >>>> of greens outside and start getting ready to put in the starts mid-May. >>>> Nah... I think I'll go to the Hummer store and see if the prices are >>>> finally >>>> down enough that I can finally trade my 30 yr old 40MPG Civic in on... I >>>> deserve to ride in style. I am, after all, one of Mother Nature's most >>>> special children! Gas is hovering at $2... no big deal. And the produce >>>> section is *full* of great green goodness shipped halfway across the >>>> planet, >>>> all shiny and wrapped up in cellophane, much prettier than anything I could >>>> grow myself. What was I thinking? Articles on big thinkers like Dyson get >>>> me all nostalgic sometimes. >>>> >>>> Besides, I need to work on the mathematics to see if my version of the >>>> Dyson Sphere will remain solar-stationary based on the "solar wind" alone, >>>> and what angular velocity I need to provide 1G, and whether the resulting >>>> coriolis forces will mess with my head. I guess I should go back and read >>>> Niven's RingWorld again for some pointers. What are we going to use to >>>> replace the magnetic field to deflect the "bad rays" and where will they >>>> go? Oh shit! I think we just created a giant Cavitron! No wonder there >>>> are so many pulsars in the known universe... they are just all of the >>>> civilizations who survived their own nonsense long enough to turn their >>>> solar system into a giant Cavitron spewing beams of intense energy around >>>> the Universe as cautionary beacons for the rest of us. >>>> >>>> Ahhhhhhhhyeeeeeeee! >>>> >>>> - Steven Angsty Smith >>>> Homo Sapiens Exploitatus ExtraOrdinaire >>>> >>>> That's a funny coincidence ... I am reading it just now. >>>> I'm always glad to come across another skeptic on anthropogenic global >>>> warming, particularly from someone with such strong credentials. The >>>> sustained level of pervasive hand-wrangling on this issue is quite >>>> worrisome. The actions that some are proposing to curb carbon emissions is >>>> far out of line relative to the level of uncertainty that still exists, and >>>> I think it likely that a stiff carbon tax of some sort will do much more >>>> harm than good. >>>> >>>> And I do get tired of the badly written articles one finds on this >>>> subject in the press. The level of blind acceptance among the press corp >>>> is >>>> rather reminiscent of those covering the Bush white house. >>>> >>>> Anyway, that's just my opinion. I have seen a slight uptick in >>>> skeptical writings over the last year or so on AGW, so maybe we have >>>> started >>>> to turn the corner on this issue. One can hope. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Ted >>>> >>>> *I didn't just drop a bomb, did I? >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Nicholas Thompson < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> While we are at it, did anybody read about Freeman Dyson in the Times >>>>> Mag today? What did you think? >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
<<813.gif>>
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
