s/behaviorist/FRIAMer/g s/sex/a FRIAM list discussion/g :-o
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Tom Carter <[email protected]>wrote: > so, what does one behaviorist say to another after sex? > > It was good for you, how was it for me? > > :-) > > tom > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 11:19 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > Steve writes: > > 1) I don't understand what Nick means when he says : > > *I doubt that I am conscious and that my consciousness affects my acts. > * > > I sympathize with the feeling, but I don't understand. In particular who > the "I" is who is doing the doubting and whether "doubting" is a conscious > act or not. > > Nick replies: this is what it is to be trapped in a language game. If you > dont play the game nobody understands you, and if you do play the game, > everybody accuses you of being a hypocrite. > > As I said to Jochen, I grant to myself all the powers I grant to any > creature. If you can see me, I can see me. If you can see me doubting, > then I can see me doubting. Everything a third person can do, I do. > Doubting is a conscious act if the behavior of the doubter implies awareness > of the doubting. > > Like all behaviorists, I believe that first person perception is just third > person perception directed towards the self. > > N > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Steve Smith <[email protected]> > *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]> > *Sent:* 6/14/2009 8:44:26 AM > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The ghost in the machine (was 'quick question') > > Jochen and Nick- > > I don't have any answers on this one, but I do have a couple of > observations. > > 1) I don't understand what Nick means when he says : > > *I doubt that I am conscious and that my consciousness affects my acts. > * > > I sympathize with the feeling, but I don't understand. In particular who > the "I" is who is doing the doubting and whether "doubting" is a conscious > act or not. > > 2) I appreciate Jochen's attempts to reduce the mystery of conscious action > into it's (perhaps) more tractable components, but somehow I feel like you > are cutting the head off of a Hydra in the process. > > > As a young child (<10 yrs) I would lie in the grass staring at the clouds > on lazy summer days until I felt compelled to get up and do something > else. At that point, the habit of laying and contemplating would be deep > enough that I would find myself in an interesting "loop" of "deciding to get > up, but not doing it. I would (deliberately) think very hard about getting > up yet would never quite find the connection between the decision and the > action. I would deli berately search for the connection between the > conscious thought "I shall get up now"with the action "getting up" and the > very introspection would prevent the connection best I could tell. It would > get so "bad" that eventually I would have to play a mental trick on myself > and quit thinking about getting up. At that point, I would simply "get up" > and the loop would be broken. > > This anecdote might explain why I am sympathetic with both Nick and Jochen, > yet am significantly unsatisfied with either discussion. > > Carry on! > - Steve > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Doug Roberts [email protected] [email protected] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
