Eric-
Interesting quote. Free will is obviously a discussion that is
endless. It separates the CAS of humanity from that of ants, bees and
termites. Are we closer to the "edge of chaos" and creativity
because of free will. I think so. Is there a possible theological
implication of that. Again, I think so.
Seneca seemed to appreciate the difference between the relative order
of the present and the increasing unorder of the future. I don't
mean to "channel" Seneca, but his thoughts seem startlingly
contemporary. While "Philosophy" has taken a beating on this
discussion board, if we shift the semiotic from "Philosophy" to
"Ontology" perhaps it sheds its baggage a bit. After all, we all
engage in some form of "sense making" with our environment.
Thanks for taking the time to share the quote.
Russ#3
On Aug 15, 2009, at 11:54 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote:
Russ #3,
I will attempt a serious response to your post, with a non-randomly
generated quote. I have recently been pondering the following quote
by Pierce (founder of the Pragmatism movement), which seems relevant:
"The question of free-will and fate in its simplest form, stripped
of verbiage, is something like this: I have done something of which
I am ashamed: could I, by an effort of the will, have resisted the
temptation, and done otherwise? The philosophical reply is, that
this is not a question of fact, but only of the arrangement of
facts. Arranging them so as to exhibit what is particularly
pertinent to my question --- namely, that I ought to blame myself
for having done wrong --- it is perfectly true to say that, if I had
willed to do otherwise than I did, I should have done otherwise. On
the other hand, arranging the facts so as to exhibit another
important consideration, it is equally true that, when a temptation
has once been allowed to work, it will, if it has a certain force,
produce its effect, let me struggle how I may... Many questions are
involved in the free-will discussion, and I am far from desiring to
say that both sides are equally right... But what I do say is, that
the above single question was the origin of the whole doubt; that,
had it not been for this question, the controversy would never have
arisen; and that this question is perfectly solved in the manner
which I have indicated."
I think this quote seems relevant to me because it somehow suggests
that both Seneca's "certainty" and his "uncertainty" are somehow
false.
Eric
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 12:39 PM, Russell Gonnering
<[email protected]> wrote:
Not to stir the philosophical pot too much, but I spent a delightful
day with David Snowden this past week. He started his discussion
with a quote from Seneca:
“The greatest loss of time is delay & expectation, which depend upon
the future. We let go the present, which we have in our power, and
look forward to that which depends upon chance, and so relinquish a
certainty for an uncertainty.”
Could Seneca have been the original Complexity Theory proponent?
Russ #3
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Eric Charles
Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
