Steve, I have already apologized for my original shallow remark, but I continue to appreciate the rather deep responses it has provoked. This is a very forgiving list.
Perhaps my problem is not with etiquette (eg, nick should spell check his messages) but with those who claim to speak on its authority. Etiquette is an emergent. Perhaps it's not etiquette I object to but the Emily Post's of the world. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([email protected]) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > [Original Message] > From: Steve Smith <[email protected]> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > Date: 9/5/2009 11:27:47 AM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fascism and ettiquette > > Interesting what a strange bend this conversation took. > > It started out (I think) as an observation that what makes the Net > "work" is that it has a few very simple, very well implemented/enforced > rules (low level protocols) and a mechanism for layering higher-level > protocols on those and everything else is just "convention", confined at > most by "ettiquette". > > I think there is a parallel between the self-organizing "success" of the > ecology we call the Internet and the self-organizing "success" of the > ecology we call "civilization". I "quote" success for both objects > (civilization *and* the Internet) because it is arguable, depending on > our measures about "what means success?". > > Nick> It may be the Berkeley Relic speaking in me, but I have often found > Nick> "ettiquette" to be the next door neighbor of fascism. > Nick> > Nick> Do you all remember the "Sandwich Nazi" of Seinfeld? > > > <anecdote> > You may have meant it precisely this way Nick, but my own experience in > Berkeley (2005) was that the old hippies had all become extremely > authoritarian, and in some cases truly "fascistic". > > A good friend (in Berkeley) supports the weekly activities of George > Coates ( http://www.betterbadnews.com/ and http://www.georgecoates.org/ > ) where he and a small troupe of actors slide into the Berkeley City > Council chambers right after the weekly City Council meeting and hold > their own spoof on the same... on TV! on the very same Berkeley Public > Access Channel station where the *real* council meeting is aired. It is > a spontaneous, just-in-time, ad-hoc, extemperaneous, ad-libbed > lampooning and spoofing of the very very Berkeley council. A hoot. > Too bad they don't air that on on the Internet. > </anecdote> > > This observation by Nick reminds me that the conventional view of > politics (or personal values?) as a one dimensional spectrum from > conservative to liberal does not model reality well at all. The 2D > models such as the Nolan or Pournelle Charts provide a little more room > for having complex thoughts and experiences as human individuals and groups. > > I find it interesting that in our general political discourse, > rhetorical speaking (and too often thinking) involves mis-ascribing > various values and motives. "Fascism" has become a term of slander. > Any perceived authoritarian or extremist position is generally labeled > "Fascist" and all too often, it is the extremist who finds all others > who don't agree with her, an "extremist". > > I'm no fan of Fascism myself, but mere extremism or fundamentalism does > not capture the key features of Fascism that offend/concern me. > > The key feature of Fascism for me is the nationalism and militarism > (more accurately, a belief that conflict is necessary). Fascism and > Communism alike have demonstrated to us some extremes in > Totalitarianism, but this is a consequence of their designed-in > Authoritarianism which is far from unique to Fascism. > > As a Flaming Anarchist, I actually like Ettiquete, as it provides some > sort of guide to social acceptance that allows one to maintain ones own > sense of self, while knowing how to behave in different groups. Like > Tarzan of the Apes being able to become Lord Greystoke... could he have > ever pulled that off without Victorian Ettiquette? > > Do we know of any ABMs that have been developed to interact and wander > about (self-organize) in the "Political/Sociological Landscape"? It > seems that Nick/Owen's MOTH (Myway Or The Highway) is a limited version > of this. > > One of my attractions to modeling and simulation is that it requires a > different kind of rigor in thinking than more "conventional" analysis. > By trying to actually *build* a model, many well held beliefs suddenly > must be inspected closely and considered carefully in the context of all > the other well-held beliefs going into the model. > > Imagine for example, what a 1-D political ABM would look like? About > all you might be able to show well is the mechanisms of bipolar > extremism and maybe a little bit about centrism. It seems like an > absurdly degenerate dynamical system, yet it is the basis for almost all > of our political rhetoric. > > In the *real* human-value/experience (and by projection, political) > landscape, there are many more factors at work than mere beliefs about > economic and personal freedoms. It is an artifact of (somewhat) our > two-party system that we think one-dimensionally. Throw in the Greens > and the Libertarians along with the Cons and the NeoCons and the Dems > and the Socialists and the Communists and you begin to get a truly > interesting stew. > > - Steve > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
