And I would add: 6. A property of a class of entities is emergent if it is defined for entities of that class (and their subclasses) but not for entities of other classes.
-- Russ On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Nicholas Thompson < [email protected]> wrote: > Glen, > > Thou sayst: > > I tend to think emergence is a fiction or, > > at best, an illusion borne out of each person's self-centeredness. > > Gradually, finally, I feel I am getting enough of a grip on "emergence" to > try work with this assertion. > > It applies to only some of the concepts of emergence that we have so far > been able to explicate. These are > > (1)Logical or nominal emergence: An emergent property of an aggregate is > just one that is logically incompatible with the properties of the elements > of the aggregate. Like "aggregate", for instance. "Aggregativity" is a > nominally emergent property. > > (2) Surprisogenic Emergence: A property of an aggregate is emergent if we > don't understand how it arises from the elements of the aggregate. > Somebody in the seminar today called this property Surprisivity. I think > the term is a keeper. > > 3. Wimsattian. A property of an aggregate is emergent if it depends on the > order of appearance or position of the elements within the aggregate. (On > this account, most aggregates have at least some emergent properties.) > > 4. Computational Emergence: A result is emergent if there is no way to > compute it except by running the program. > > 5. Crutchfieldian Emergence: A system is emergent if the best way to model > it is to attribute to the system a model of itself. I.e, the best model of > the system is a model- model. An example of this type of model is the > socalled theory-theory of infant cognition. > > I think your rejection of emergence applies only to (2) above.... and > possibly (4), if we understand "no way" to mean "no way we have thought of > yet". But I bet you disagree. > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa fe] > > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: glen e. p. ropella <[email protected]> > > To: Owen Densmore <[email protected]> > > Cc: Nicholas Thompson <[email protected]>; Charles Wesley > Demarco <[email protected]>; Chip Garner <[email protected]>; > Frank Wimberly <[email protected]>; Jim Gattiker > <[email protected]>; maryl <[email protected]>; Merle Lefkoff > <[email protected]>; Michel Bloch <[email protected]>; nthompson > Thompson <[email protected]>; Roger Critchlow <[email protected]>; Russ > Abbott > <[email protected]> > > Date: 11/5/2009 4:16:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Crutchfield 's "Is anything ever new?" > > > > Thus spake Owen Densmore circa 09-11-05 12:23 PM: > > > 1 - The language used by Crutchfield is specific to his peers and > > > domain. Thus "closure" is a very important concept, but easily > > > misunderstood by non-peer readers. I tried to point most out .. > > > including closure .. but there are so many as to make the task > difficult. > > > > Yes, it's always seemed to me that Jim's a bit of a "job security" type > > of guy. Every one of our "science lunches" that he was at ended up > > filled with hermeneutics and word redefinitions. So, decoding his > > writing is always a deep effort for me. In the end, though, it's > rewarding. > > > > > 2 - I actually held a brief "tutorial" on automata. I printed out a 1 > > > page (2 sided) set of passages from Sipser's book on the three main > > > types, and made the point that Languages are sets of Strings comprised > > > of Symbols, and that each level of automata had an equivalence to a > > > language. I.e. Deterministic Finite Automata have an equivalence to > > > Regular Expressions. We even included the n-tuple definition, simply > to > > > show that the simple machines are easily formalized. No homework was > > > given! :) > > > > Ugh! I'm jealous of the community you guys live in. To get a group of > > people to sit around talking about automata is damned near impossible > here. > > > > > I really hope we are not yet again creating silos. I'm trying to get > my > > > head around the philosophic approach comfortable to non-technologists, > > > and even like some of it. But there does seem to be a gap hard to > > > bridge when discussing things as formal as e-machines. > > > > Specialization is required. It can't be avoided. The trick is how > > _snarky_ we are to each other when approached by a deme-hopper. ;-) > > Even in scientific and technical papers, you can detect the snarky > > people who actively obfuscate their meaning with fancy words, inside > > jokes, and overly complicated concepts. So, we'll always have this > > balance between the necessary specialization and the 2 types of people, > > those who think secrecy and hermeneutics are power and those who think > > openness and bluntness are power. (I'm in the latter category, fwiw.) > > An anti-philosophy bias is part of the requisite specialization. But > > it's possible that philosophers don't evenly distribute across the > > secret-open spectrum, making the bias easer to adopt. > > > > > I'm getting a bad reputation as a "formalist" .. which I'm not, IMHO. > > > Its just that I'd like to include it when appropriate. Understanding > > > Emergence is just such a place. > > > > I'm not so sure, actually. I tend to think emergence is a fiction or, > > at best, an illusion borne out of each person's self-centeredness. > > Formalizing it just makes it seem real.... like setting a plate at the > > dinner table for an imaginary friend. ;-) But I'm willing to play along > > anyway. Worst case, I'm proven wrong and eat crow. Best case, I learn > > lots on the way. > > > > -- > > glen e. p. ropella, 971-222-9095, http://tempusdictum.com > > >
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