Nice goals, Owen.

A bit short on details about how to implement, and as far as I could tell,
did not address methods for stemming/thwarting the economic drivers that
make war so attractive to those large military industrial societal
components.  Nor was their any guidance on how to direct that inward-looking
dim majority which comprises the majority of our race towards the version of
a higher level of Nirvana which you describe.

But nice goals.

--Doug

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Owen Densmore <[email protected]> wrote:

> OK, smart folks, then what *is* the sensible way to go?  I have my platform
> ready:
>
> Stop the wars, convert them into game-theoretic diplomacy such as pointing
> out how important Afghanistan is to Europe, India and China, and how
> important Iraq is to its wealthy arab neighbors and Europe.  Stop the
> Palestine/Israel wars by not supporting either side.  Cut off all aid and
> arms to either.
>
> Terrorism: ignore it.  If we do well at removing ourselves from the wars
> and interventions into other country's problems, we're likely to reduce
> threats.  Remove the current overly strict airline security.  But do be
> serious about responding to true attacks like Afghanistan, just remove the
> threat, and leave.  Create the message: Don't mess with us and we'll get out
> of your life.
>
> With the money thus saved, hack away at the deficit while providing a
> minimal step toward health care:
> 1) Require universal health care insurance.
> 2) Remove preconditions.
> 3) Subsidize those who cannot afford the base rate.
> 4) limit malpractice litigation.
> (Deficit reduction seems to have been important in past innovation
> resurgence, and is just sane.  I doubt much of our debt is helping the poor,
> homeless and unemployed .. it likely is just paying fat cats.)
>
> In terms of military, bring back the draft and broaden military duty to
> include civic programs .. a peace corps approach.  Seriously take care of
> the vets, they are ignored as soon as they return.  Make sure the medical
> plans are available, along with an improved GI bill for education.
>
> While we're at it, stop the other war, that on drugs.  Legalize drugs,
> under state control, and tax the hell out of them.  Empty the prisons of
> convicted drug users.  Use the tax to pay for the initial health plan.
>
> Fiber to the home, immediately.  Provide distance-learning public education
> made up of freely available courseware such as MITs and Britain's Open
> University.  (Steve and I are amazed how good UNM's VOD system, for example,
> as we take CS500 from Cris Moore.)
>
> On the energy front: nuclear.  Based on really modern thorium reactor
> technology, or similar.  Don't give up on "green" but deploy in small
> distributed plants, not huge mountain eating wind farms.  UK is already
> doing this for new industrial plants: they have to be 20% self sustaining.
>
> Finally, build the most amazing public transportation system ever dreamed
> of, similar to Kennedy's moon shot.
>
> Basically build a world we can be proud of.  And stop whining.
>
>     -- Owen
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
>
> Stupid of me to misread the table like that.
>
> ;-}
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Russ Abbott <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> The table on the Wikipedia 
>> page<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#National_IQ_estimates>says
>>  we're at 98, not 93. It's apparently taken from
>> here <http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.asp>, which
>> seems to have more entries.
>>
>>
>> -- Russ Abbott
>> _____________________________________________
>> Professor, Computer Science
>> California State University, Los Angeles
>> Cell phone: 310-621-3805
>> o Check out my blog at http://russabbott.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Douglas Roberts 
>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> There are times when I do feel the need to turn to my Psittaciformes for
>>> some genuinely deep, intelligent, considered discourse.  I'm sure that will
>>> come as no great surprise to you,  Nick.
>>>
>>> I'd like to bludgeon home one more bit of fact that IMO supports and
>>> justifies my low opinion of the aggregate level if intelligence in this
>>> country:  fully 47% of our fine US population voted for a presidential
>>> ticket that had Sarah Palin down for Vice President.
>>>
>>> I'd also like to throw out another troubling observation:  Whenever the
>>> intellectual elite launch yet another discourse on one troubled aspect of
>>> our country or another -- health care, economic reform, the educational
>>> system, the political system -- they always go all academic on us.  We get
>>> deep, thoughty intricate, theoretical symposia which never touch on the core
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> What is the core issue?  The fact that the average IQ in the United
>>> states is just a notch above 90.  93, according to this 
>>> reference,<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations>and 
>>> I've seen others that support it.  What I have not seen is what the
>>> distribution of IQs for the US is, so I don't know how fat the left hand
>>> side tails are, but I suspect the worse.
>>>
>>> Now, I suspect that the bulk of the FRIAM readership is, or at least
>>> consider themselves to be several points above the US standard.  So given
>>> that, why have we never seen a discussion oriented around how to lead a
>>> nation of dullards into a better social structure?
>>>
>>> I would argue, should such a discussion ever get beyond the topic of
>>> political correctness, that we have arrived at exactly the optimal solution.
>>>  From the perspective of the power elite, of course.  The rich, powerful
>>> corporations like Bechtel, BWXT, the Washington Group, Grumman, Lockheed to
>>> name but a few of the military industrial ones.  United Health Care, Blue
>>> Cross, Cygna, etc.  from the health care sector.  Likewise, the view as seen
>>> by the politicians whom those very same corporate entities have purchased is
>>> clearly pretty rosy.
>>>
>>> From where these guys sit, it's the perfect way to run a country.  The
>>> academics can blather all they want about theoretical optimizing solutions
>>> to whatever they claim are the pressing societal problems, because meanwhile
>>> the bulk of the populace are enchanted with Sarah Palin, the Party of No!,
>>>  Rush, Pat Robertson, and their ilk, and the status remains Quo.  Plus or
>>> minus a few nuances, George Orwell got it right.
>>>
>>> Then, there's the issue of cultural stupidity, which may or may not be
>>> related to IQ.  These are the ones that Pamela refers to as unable to think
>>> their way past slogans they've been taught.  This is a rich field for
>>> research, publications, speaking engagements, but one which most academics
>>> seem blissfully unaware.
>>>
>>> --Doug
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nicholas Thompson <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Doug,
>>>>
>>>> Parroting doug ===>We truly are a nation of idiots.  We deserve Rush
>>>> Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and Pat Robertson <=== end parroting Doug
>>>>
>>>> I don't think one has to be stupid to engage in Dialogues of the Deaf.
>>>> We do that sort of thing quite well in FRIAM, from time to time, and we 
>>>> are,
>>>> ex hypothesi, VERY smart.
>>>>
>>>>  Somewhere along the way, We lost our faith that there is a Truth Of The
>>>> Matter.   In the fifties, you had to believe that you were right, when you
>>>> said something.  Nowadays, you just have to believe you are plausible.  (I
>>>> blame the post-modernists myself ... but now this message is becoming an
>>>> example of itself.)
>>>>
>>>> That having been said, are the Tea-Totallers any worse than the people
>>>> who put McCarthy into office in the 50's?
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Nicholas S. Thompson
>>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
>>>> Clark University ([email protected])
>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
>>>> http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* Douglas Roberts <[email protected]>
>>>> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]>
>>>> *Sent:* 2/14/2010 9:05:07 AM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Sources of Innovation
>>>>
>>>> Pamela,
>>>>
>>>> I think the healthcare issue goes way beyond just the usual corporate
>>>> profit protection, pay for play political game.  Look at how polarized the
>>>> nation has become over just this issue alone.  Look at how many people
>>>> *don't* believe that the healthcare issue is really about healthcare
>>>> insurance industry profit protection.
>>>>
>>>> We truly are a nation of idiots.  We deserve Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin,
>>>> and Pat Robertson.
>>>>
>>>> Model that, if you like.  The agents in the individual based simulation
>>>> won't need much sophistication.
>>>>
>>>> --Doug
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When Kennedy envisioned going to the moon, no lobby existed to fight
>>>>> ferociously for the sole right to take the profits from going to the moon,
>>>>> and the sole right to decide who gets to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you read the not-very-deep subtext in this fight, you will see that
>>>>> it's not about giving better healthcare to Americans (which we desperately
>>>>> need) but about protecting the enormous profits of the healthcare 
>>>>> insurance
>>>>> industry. It's dressed up in "right to choose," and "privacy between 
>>>>> doctor
>>>>> and patient," and "keep the government out of medical care," but it's 
>>>>> really
>>>>> about profit protection. From several different and reliable sources (one 
>>>>> of
>>>>> them a congressional candidate) I have heard that since early last summer,
>>>>> the insurance and pharmaceuticals industries have been spending over $1
>>>>> million per day on lobbying. It continues. You can do the arithmetic.
>>>>>
>>>>> The media regularly reports on how much better, cheaper, and more
>>>>> effective medical plans are all around the developed world. It doesn't
>>>>> penetrate $1 million-plus per day.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Where does all this whining about health care
>>>>>> come from? Everyone in Germany has a health
>>>>>> insurance, it is obligatory. There is general
>>>>>> agreement here that the European (and esp.
>>>>>> the German) health care system is better
>>>>>> and more social than the one in the US.
>>>>>> The USA obviously needs a better health care
>>>>>> system. Where is the American optimism and
>>>>>> the "i believe we can do it" spirit? I've heard
>>>>>> that optimism and positive thinking is a typical
>>>>>> American attitude.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> America is lacking a vision, something like
>>>>>> Kennedy's vision to bring a man to the moon
>>>>>> and back. Military and NASA won't do it
>>>>>> this time. A vision or a common dream which
>>>>>> would foster technological innovation. Schmidt
>>>>>> mentioned "renewable energy" and green
>>>>>> technology. What about a clean L.A. with
>>>>>> fresh air? A large scale scientific initiative
>>>>>> to create the first AI would be another one.
>>>>>> America would have the resources to do it, it
>>>>>> has the companies with the largest data centers.
>>>>>> It should be proud of Google, Microsoft,
>>>>>> Amazon, and Apple. It is difficult to understand
>>>>>> why it disputes about health care so long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -J.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Critchlow
>>>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Sources of Innovation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...] We're too busy defending ourselves from hedge fund vampires and
>>>>>> health care ghouls to worry about growth.  Say what you will about the
>>>>>> undead, they steal their profits fair and square and invest them in the 
>>>>>> rule
>>>>>> of law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
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