Perhaps what I am hearing you say Nick is that by writing fiction (and
studying it) we can uncover something meaningful about the author's
mental makeup. Just as some therapies, I am told, recommend keeping
journals for later examination.
By studying readers' reactions to the same writing, I'm sure something
meaningful can be uncovered about the reader's mental makeup.
But then I know little about psychoanalysis and the existing methods
available.
Thanks
Robert
On 10/18/10 10:27 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
Robert,
Thanks for offering me that escape route, but I cannot take it,
because I probably believe the IF-conditions. You are right to sense
that I need rescuing, because if I am abandoned by Eric, I am truly
abandoned.
I have to admit that what I laid out (below) are probably VALUES. In
other words, I am more prepared to argue from them than I am to argue
for them.
The basic idea is, though, that there aren’t kinds of truth; there is
JUST truth. So if somebody asserts that literature is source of
truth, then there MUST (on my values) be a way for science to get at
it. But now I have to go dandle.
Thanks Robert; thanks Eric.
Nick
*From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
*On Behalf Of *Robert J. Cordingley
*Sent:* Monday, October 18, 2010 8:14 AM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Art is a Lie
It's hypothetical reasoning. Re-read the IF statements.
Robert C
On 10/18/10 7:54 AM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote:
Nick,
This is bizarre! "Fiction is a potential method in scientific
psychology." I cannot, for the life of me parse it. Is it equivalent
to saying: "Fiction is a potential method in scientific physics."?
Granted that science fiction has broadly anticipated many things that
are now part of scientific physics, but it also anticipated many
things that were not, and I hope you are not arguing that cutting edge
sci-fi writers should get endowed chairs in physics on the basis of
their scientific accomplishments!
When I recall you making criticisms along these lines, it was mostly
to frustrate doe-eyed grad students who wanted to save the world. You
argued, at those times, that if they wanted to help survivors of
genocide, they would be better off writing a gripping novel that
helped increase international attention to their plight; if they
wanted to help survivors get along better with genocide bystanders,
you would write a heart wrenching novel with a message of
reconciliation; etc. The last thing you should think in either of
these situations, you argued, is that everything is failing for the
lack of one more scientific study in social/personality psychology.
This arguement I completely agreed with. It does seem to argue for
some sort of deep relationship between fictional literature and "truth."
However, I have no idea what you are getting at now. Certainly one
could study fiction as an empirical psychologist, but that wouldn't
make fiction a "method". Are you trying to say that a valid way to do
scientific psychology is to make stuff up? No chance /_you _/are doing
that. What are you trying to get at?!?
Eric
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 12:42 AM, *"Nicholas Thompson"
<[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>* wrote:
I would like, if only as a matter of principle, to rise to the defense
of all those techno-barbarians on the list who cannot find voice to
defend themselves, but I can only say that …
IF there is something valuable in fiction, if it indeed fosters or
transmits knowledge,
Then fiction is a potential method in scientific psychology.
To twist Stephen J. Gould’s words a bit: They are Overlapping
Magisteria.
There is no knowledge that is not potentially scientific knowledge.
Nick
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps athttp://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
