Nick: Next you are in town, lets read the original Shannon paper together.
Alas, it is a bit long, but I'm told its a Good Thing To Do.
-- Owen
On Jun 6, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Grant,
>
> This seems backwards to me, but I got properly thrashed for my last few
> postings so I am putting my hat over the wall very carefully here.
>
> I thought……i thought …. the information in a message was the number of bits
> by which the arrival of the message decreased the uncertainty of the
> receiver. So, let’s say you are sitting awaiting the result of a coin toss,
> and I am on the other end of the line flipping the coin. Before I say
> “heads” you have 1 bit of uncertainty; afterwards, you have none.
>
> The reason I am particularly nervous about saying this is that it, of course,
> holds out the possibility of negative information. Some forms of
> communication, appeasement gestures in animals, for instance, have the effect
> of increasing the range of behaviors likely to occur in the receiver. This
> would seem to correspond to a negative value for the information calculation.
>
> Nick
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Grant Holland
> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:07 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Steve Smith
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Quote of the week
>
> Interesting note on "information" and "uncertainty"...
>
> Information is Uncertainty. The two words are synonyms.
>
> Shannon called it "uncertainty", contemporary Information theory calls it
> "information".
>
> It is often thought that the more information there is, the less uncertainty.
> The opposite is the case.
>
> In Information Theory (aka the mathematical theory of communications) , the
> degree of information I(E) - or uncertainty U(E) - of an event is measurable
> as an inverse function of its probability, as follows:
>
> U(E) = I(E) = log( 1/Pr(E) ) = log(1) - log( Pr(E) ) = -log( Pr(E) ).
>
> Considering I(E) as a random variable, Shannon's entropy is, in fact, the
> first moment (or expectation) of I(E). Shannon entropy = exp( I(E) ).
>
> Grant
>
> On 6/5/2011 2:20 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>
> "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's easier
> and some people seem to prefer it."
>
> Modern Physics is contained in Realism which is contained in Metaphysics
> which I contained in all of Philosophy.
>
> I'd be tempted to counter:
> "Physics is to Philosophy as the Missionary Position is to the Kama Sutra"
>
> Physics also appeals to Phenomenology and Logic (the branch of Philosophy
> were Mathematics is rooted) and what we can know scientifically is
> constrained by Epistemology (the nature of knowledge) and phenomenology (the
> nature of conscious experience).
>
> It might be fair to say that many (including many of us here) who hold
> Physics up in some exalted position simply dismiss or choose to ignore all
> the messy questions considered by *the rest of* philosophy. Even if we
> think we have clear/simple answers to the questions, I do not accept that the
> questions are not worthy of the asking.
>
> The underlying point of the referenced podcast is, in fact, that Physics, or
> Science in general might be rather myopic and limited by it's own viewpoint
> by definition.
>
> "The more we know, the less we understand."
>
> Philosophy is about understanding, physics is about knowledge first and
> understanding only insomuch as it is a part of natural philosophy.
>
> Or at least this is how my understanding is structured around these matters.
>
> - Steve
>
> On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Robert Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >From the BBC's science podcast "The Infinite Monkey Cage":
>
> "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's easier
> and some people seem to prefer it."
>
> Not to be pedantic, but I suspect that s/he has conflated "philosophy" with
> "new age", as much of science owes itself to philosophy.
>
> marcos
>
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>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
