Doug -
I'm (patiently) waiting for this discussion to morph into "the
philosophy of mixing".
Not really patiently... I can hear your riding booted foot tapping all
the way from Nambe!
And don't tempt me... this does call for a riff on "the mixing of
Philosophies" and analogies of He and UF6 in one's lungs with various
Philosophies.
As a weak throwaway on the topic, I think there could be an analogy
drawn where realism in it's strongest form is like UF6 and idealism in
*it's strongest form* is like Helium.
In both cases, breathing nothing but pure He nor UF6 is a good idea, as
one will not get the O2 needed for life, but one is much more
entertaining and easier to expunge...
I have an image of some of the hardcore "realists" here having to stand
on their head to empty their lungs enough to avoid suffocating in the
heaviness of it all while the rest of us huff helium and laugh at
eachother's voices!
Now, where does N2O and the recently mentioned cocktails known as farts
come in? Ok... I'll stop now...
And maybe order a Manhattan at dinner tonight.
- Steve
Which reminds me: I haven't had a good Manhattan in a while.
--Doug
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Steve Smith <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Nick -
I think Bruce just gave a good calibration on this with his great
description not only of why or why not to breathe Uranium
Hexaflouride (cuz you will have to stand on your head to empty it
from your lungs!) but also the relative density of the gasses in
question.
Try the analogy of mixed drinks. Every good bartender knows that
you put the alcohol into the glass first so that when you add the
water-based stuff (tonic, seltzer, juice, etc.) the two mix
naturally. If you pour the alcohol *over* the watery things, you
risk the alcohol "floating" rather than mixing. We could go into
the implications of low and high "proof" alcohol, etc.
But are you surprised that your bottle of wine, beer, or hard
liquor hasn't seperated before you even get to pour it?
AS I think Doug mentioned, thermal energy alone is a good mixer...
even without the constant stirring of wind and convection...
- Steve
Sorry. Mixed up the weight of N and O. So my question should
have been, Why don’t we wake up in a layer of oxygen on still
nights?
Which brings us to your question about what would make me expect
that a mixture would separate out into its lighter and heavier
components. You tell me! Other things being equal, don’t
heavier things tend to sink when mixed with lighter ones?
N
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Douglas Roberts
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 12, 2012 2:43 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] atmospherics
Let's not ignore temperature: my farts are a good 20 degrees F
above ambient (at present), and tend to rise before mixing into
the unfortunate nearby environs. And, just in case you were
wondering what the composition of a fart was:
The major components of the flatus, which are odorless, by
percentage are:^[4]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_note-3>
§Nitrogen <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen>: 20–90%
§Hydrogen <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen>: 0–50%
§Carbon dioxide <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide>: 10–30%
§Oxygen <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen>: 0–10%
§Methane <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane>: 0–10%
*4. ^ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence#cite_ref-3>*"Human
Digestive System"
<http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-45361/human-digestive-system#294193.hook>.
/Encyclopædia Britannica/. Retrieved 2007-08-22.
--Doug
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Roger Critchlow <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Nick --
N2 weighs 28 gm/mole, O2 weighs 32 gm/mole, Ar weighs 40 gm/mole,
CO2 weighs 44 gm/mole, and H2O weighs 18 gm/mole.
Why would anyone expect the lighter components of a mixture to
fall down more than the heavier ones? If anything, you'd expect
the heavier ones to concentrate toward the bottom.
And why would anyone expect a mixture to spontaneously separate
into pure components? That happens in real life like where?
As it happens, CO2 is the heaviest normal component and it does
pool in confined spaces often enough that CO2 alarms are
available in hardware stores. Propane, C3H8, weighs 44 gm/mole
and is notorious for pooling in confined spaces and then
exploding, often in the bilge of a boat and spectacularly.
-- rec --
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Nicholas Thompson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
So, somebody asked me, in my role as a weather nerd, how come
the nitrogen in the atmosphere doesn’t all fall to the bottom
on still nights and suffocate us all. I asked the question
of
stupid-answers-to-stupid-questions-asked-by-stupid-people.com
<http://stupid-answers-to-stupid-questions-asked-by-stupid-people.com>
and THEY said, well, there’s just too much going on. N
molecules and the O molecules are just too busy, what with
convection and windcurrents, and all, to separate, even on
still nights. Now, that business doesn’t prevent cold
molecules of Nitrogen and Oxygen to separate from warm ones,
or wet ones (not sure what that means) to separate from dry
ones. I was hoping that somebody on FRIAM could give some
sort of a clue what kind of a mixture AIR is? It is suddenly
seeming kinda special.
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
http://www.cusf.org <http://www.cusf.org/>
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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--
Doug Roberts
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins
505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
