Russ,
Well, as was observed the last time we went 'round on this topic, you have faith in your powers of induction: faith that the world is the sort of a place where floors don't evaporate after several years of not evaporating. Do you remember the car that drove off the severed bridge in Connecticut some years back? That man had faith that an interstate is not the sort of place where roads suddenly come to an end. Turned out to be false. By the way, a story circulated about that incident that the last thing that driver did was give the finger to another drive that he had just passed. Urban folklore, right? Too much Karma. Nick From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Russ Abbott Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 8:42 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith I don't buy that "It is faith when you get out of bed without checking to see that the ground is still there." Why should one suppose that the ground would not be there? It seems to me that using "faith" that loosely robs the word of most of its meaning. Faith, I would say (in fact I did earlier) is believing something that one wouldn't otherwise believe without faith. Believing that the everyday world is the everyday world doesn't seem to me to require faith. What would require faith is to believe that the everyday world is somehow not the everyday world but a manifestation of some unknowable being. -- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles My paper on how the Fed can fix the economy: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688 Google voice: 747-999-5105 Google+: plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ vita: <http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/> sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ CS Wiki <http://cs.calstatela.edu/wiki/> and the courses I teach _____________________________________________ On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Douglas Roberts <[email protected]> wrote: It makes for a great academic, philosophical talking point, though. On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES <[email protected]> wrote: Since this thread is still going... Curt said: "Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I don't have to track every one exactly." ---- Exactly! It is faith when you stop monitoring the other cars when driving, stop looking at the ground you are about to step on when walking, etc. It is faith when you get out of bed without checking to see that the ground is still there. The actions themselves entail the faith; they do not result from faith, they are the faith. An interesting additional issue is when we do and do not explicitly talk about the things we have faith in. It might also be an additional issue on what basis some people have faith in a "super-natural" "higher-power". (Both scare-quotes seem necessary, because pretty everyone has faith in higher powers, and most people have faith in things they don't have natural explanations for, but we seem to be focusing primarily on the times when those faiths overlap.) Eric P.S. Curt, if you are into Power's Perceptual Control Theory, do you know Richard Marken and Warren Manell's work? They wrote a great article for a journal issue I am putting together. P.P.S. The notion of "blind" faith is really very modern. Certainly it was not long ago that faith in the Judeo-Christian God was primarily supported by experiential evidence. "Behold the wonders," "experience God in every blade of grass," "check out this amazing cathedral," "our army won," etc. The fact that we sometimes meaningfully talk about "blind faith" seems to indicate that the normal meaning of the term "faith" is not inherently blind. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 12:21 AM, Curt McNamara <[email protected]> wrote: I had been nicely ignoring this thread in the belief (faith?) that it would go away without affecting me. Alas, the need for a distraction from grading has drawn me back into its basin of (strange) attraction. Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I don't have to track every one exactly. Action based on belief: ref. William Powers: Behavior, the Control of Perception. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_control_theory Faith or belief: my mental models of the world will still be true tomorrow. These models have been built over time by hypothesis, testing, and adjustment (toddler and stairs example). Curt ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ------------ Eric Charles Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State University Altoona, PA 16601 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Doug Roberts [email protected] [email protected] http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
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