Isn't there a danger of going back to paralysis by analysis... happens
every time (so far). Tell the grieving parents that.
Robert C
On 12/16/12 3:37 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote:
But Jochen... now you are begging the question. Even if it is true, as
you argue, that real-life gun training and violent video games cause
problems IN TROUBLED TEENS, the obvious conclusion would be to try to
produce fewer troubled teens! If you fix that, you don't need to
regulate legitimate safety training or entertainment.
I live in central Pennsylvania. Most every student in my classes has
been trained in gun use. They grew up in the video-game age, so most
have played violent video games. I can assure you I don't feel at risk
around any of them. The idea that we should engage in cultural warfare
that REALLY DOES go against the fabric of local communities, in the
desperate hope to avoid an infrequent and unpredictable tragedy is
seriously flawed. Since this discussion has spilled over onto the
list, I will add that there really are better ways of talking about
these types of events
<https://my.psychologytoday.com/blog/fixing-psychology/201212/making-sense-the-sense-making>.
Eric
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 04:35 PM, *Jochen Fromm <[email protected]>* wrote:
The NYTimes has a nice article about this balderdash
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/opinion/collins-looking-for-america.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
What I found interesting is how the whole can be different from
the parts: first-person shooters alone are harmless, shooting
clubs or sports as well, but the combination of both can
apparently be toxic for troubled teenagers. A bit like a chemical
reaction.
-J.
Sent from Android
James Steiner <[email protected]> wrote:
I think this line of reasoning ("using guns and violent games make
people go crazy and shoot people, therefore, restricting access
(even more) to guns and games will make less people shoot people.
") is balderdash.
Correlation is not causation.
Guns and games did not make the person troubled.
There are many teens/adults who have access to both real and
virtual gun sport who do *not* shoot up schools, malls, or post
offices. This is demonstrated by the simple fact of the millions
of sales of both guns and gun games every year, compared to the
lack of millions (or even dozens) of mass shooting murders every
year.
Likewise, the wild success of Angry Birds did not create a run on
slingshots, nor cause a single undesired building demolition.
While we're theorizing without rigor, I assert that access to gun
sport and virtual violent games provides a healthy outlet for
acting out violent feelings, and working out frustrations.
Sans guns, we might have had a stabbing, a homemade bomb, or
perhaps something else. Note the school mass *stabbing* in China
the same day, with 22 people stabbed. Granted, no deaths reported.
I guess that's a comfort?
See also, the patriarchy, which teaches that violent outburst is
an appropriate form of expression--for men.
Note that in 30 years, 61 of 62 gun-using US mass murderers have
been men. [see Mother Jones, July 2012, for criteria and sources]
And that suggests another key point: these incidents are rare:
just 62 in 30 years. Each has it's own particular and peculiar
circumstances. To pick just one thing they may have in common,
then assert that "fixing" that one thing will prevent any future
incident is, at best, naive, and in other proportions arrogant,
lazy, and disingenuous.
Perhaps it's true that there can be no shootings if there are no
guns, but that is never going to happen, without a perfect descent
into utter fascism. In any case, as long as there are people who
want to kill people, people will find a way to do it. So we must
look in another direction. Like a way to help people *not* want to
kill people.
~~James
On Dec 16, 2012 2:08 PM, "Jochen Fromm" <[email protected] <#>>
wrote:
>
>
> The recent shooting at Sandy Hook, Conneticut,
> reminded me of the shooting in Winnenden 3 years ago.
> In 2009, a teenager killed 15 people at a School
> in southern Germany. It turned out his father owned
> many guns legally and took him occasionally to a shooting
> club. The son played frequently shooting games like
> "Counter Strike". The combination of learning to
> kill people in virtual worlds and learning to shoot
> in the real world was toxic for the young troubled
> teenager.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting
>
> The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting now
> seems to be similar: the mother owned many guns
> legally and used them, she went through target
> shooting with her son. The son apparently liked
> violent video games (probably first-person shooter
> as well). Again the combination of learning to kill
> people in virtual worlds and learning to shoot in the
> real world was toxic for the young person and
> certainly contributed to the disaster
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
>
> If we want to prevent these shootings happening
> again, then we must either make it much harder
> for children to go to shooting clubs and to
> participate in shooting sport, or we must make it
> much harder for underage persons to get first-person
> shooter games. Or both. What do you think?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sport
>
> -J.
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------------
Eric Charles
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
