And you forgot our genocide? For some reason I imagine that the Australian genocide was less vicious. I hope the Australians on the list will weigh in on that. N
From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:18 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] How to avoid shootings I know we have some Aussies on this list who may be able to keep me honest, but an Australian friend of mine, in response to this debate and this incident claimed that until 1996, the Australian gun ownership was not that much different than our own. As the consequence of a mass shooting at Port Arthur in 1996, their newly elected PM, (Nationalist?) John Howard organized a massive effort to change the gun control laws. It is claimed that this, along with subsequent "gun buyback" efforts, yielded a significant downturn in gun violence (and completely eliminated gun-massacres?). Australia has a lot on common with our own "wild west" where guns are *most* popular. Some significant differences, however, include: No Revolutionary War (and the subsequent desire to have a right to bear arms); No Civil War (and a subsequent over-abundance of disenfranchised confederate soldiers practiced in gunplay and seeking glory (or at least a new life) in the wild wild west; and no significant Firearms Industry (as opposed to the US which has perhaps the largest? So yes, the Gun-Lobby has a big play... and campaign finance reform (and other efforts to blunt political corruption?) might help. Is it me or isn't it obvious that without campaign finance reform we won't be able to pass any reasonable gun control laws because of the NRA? Robert C On 12/16/12 6:23 PM, Steve Smith wrote: Owen - I don't want a neighbor with a bazooka. Or hand-grenade. I'm fine with well educated gun owners with hand guns and hunting rifles. But do we really want neighbors with ground-to-air rocket launchers? I think this is the conditions too much of the third world where we (and our surrogates) have been meddling are living under. e.g. Palestine, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc... but that is another question all together. Cordingly - >Isn't there a danger of going back to paralysis by analysis... happens every time (so far). Tell the grieving parents that. I think this is one of the risks of being a considered individual or group... and it butts up next to knee jerk reactions. It is actually *hard* to stay on the fence, in my experience. All - I personally would like to see few if any rapid-fire and high-capacity handguns *or* rifles in the hands of most "civilians" and then a major downgrade in the hands of the civil law, then in the military. I think we would have a lot fewer tragic accidents for sure, and probably a few less tragic events like this most recent one if this were the case. But that doesn't mean I see a clear path to making that happen nor think a useful number of people in our culture would agree to those restrictions voluntarily. Sigh! I recently received two handguns when my father passed away. I learned to shoot them when I was young (along with his rifles which went elsewhere). One is the M1917 Colt .45 revolver my grandfather carried in WWI and by my father during infrequent periods where his job with the US Forest Service included a minor law-enforcement aspect. I'm not that eager to simply melt it down, though I deliberately decline to keep any ammunition for it. I've made it through my entire adult life without more than passing contact with handguns and I think I can make it the rest of the way without aiming or firing one. My wife wanted me to disassemble it for her to make it into an art project. For the moment, we have compromised on her using the spare barrel (the original one, which had been replaced when it sustained some minor damage) for a project. We'll see what comes next. Perhaps trigger locks. But that only blunts the overt risk of keeping these two handguns intact... it doesn't exactly address the larger question of gun-culture and related violence-culture. Carry On, Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
