On 01/14/2014 07:45 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > Berkeley, the center of uber-liberalism, has become, in it's collective > character and in it's specific approach to governing, quite fascist... > despite applying it to a very liberal agenda.
I think we've discussed this before, but perhaps only off list. Now's my chance to throw down the gauntlet publicly. ;-) I don't think you're using the word "fascist" properly at all, here. I admit that _an_ essence of fascism is control. And perhaps that's all you mean... a kind of limited degrees of freedom due to an ensnaring web of byzantine rules. Toss in a good amount of shaming, political correctness, hate speech constraints, etc. and I can see how the environment you describe could be called tightly controlled. But I don't think that's what most people mean by the word "fascist". Although I can also admit that most of the people who _currently_ shout "fascism" at the drop of a hat may well mean that. So, perhaps the word is newly defined (evolved) and you're using the new definition? Traditionally (from the dictionary and other sources) I think fascism requires: o a fetish for the military, including paramilitary, and war/battle/fighting, o some sort of dictator/autocrat, and o reliance on physical force, not merely verbal or psychological coercion. I don't know Berkeley at all. I do vaguely remember some news coverage during the Occupy noise about a mayor of Berkeley tending towards more use of police (dressed in very military looking gear). So, it would be easy for you to convince me that Berkeley has _become_ more fascist over the years. But it wouldn't be in correlation with uber-liberalism. It would (I think) correlate more with traditionally fascist aspects. > I can tell that I've miscommunicated significantly in this (and this > thread only?) thread... Bah! Cheers to miscommunication! One of my favorite aphorisms is "The problem with communication is the illusion that it exists." I have no idea who first said or and I've forgotten who I heard it from. But it always rings true to me. -- ⇒⇐ glen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
