*Smack my head* we needed a long study to show what  kids, parents, the
swashbucklers and Nords already new? Comradery and being nice meens a sold
and fun place to be at?
lol sigh.


On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote:

> Slightly relevant, I think:
>
> http://qz.com/625870/after-years-of-intensive-analysis-
> google-discovers-the-key-to-good-teamwork-is-being-nice/?
> utm_source=kwfb&kwp_0=256037
>
> Frank Wimberly
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Oct 26, 2016 7:33 PM, "Marcus Daniels" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>> I think it is a false dichotomy.    A healthy collective improves the
>> lives of its members, not just a few of them.   A large collective (like
>> our nation) will have a larger set of objectives to optimize at once.   A
>> liberal, like me, will argue for throwing the collective resources at those
>> harder problems.
>>
>> A Libertarian will essentially argue for treating the system as a set of
>> smaller systems and limiting the complexity of the problem, especially if
>> that means no other problems but their own.   A conservative will point to
>> historical optimization problems that have local optima and claim the
>> contemporary optimization is already done if people would just get with the
>> program.
>>
>>
>> Folks like Jeff Bezos can just decide they are going to pursue space
>> travel,  and do what is necessary to make it happen.    There's not
>> friction in each and every decision.    An individual may make mistakes,
>> but their internal planning will be relatively fast and coherent.
>>
>>
>> Two other points:
>>
>>
>> 1) Obviously, groups can be exclusionary.   The `greater good' can mean
>> "amongst Amazon shareholders or customers".
>>
>>
>> 2) Productivity is the ratio of output to input cost.   If Bezos drives
>> the inputs down through robotics, drones, machine learning, etc. he doesn't
>> have to care about how humans happen to interact with one another.   This
>> has always been the appeal of computers to me, really -- a force
>> multiplier.   I don't want to delegate to other information workers, I want
>> the computer to do it for me while also being able to understand every
>> nuance if I want to.
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of Steven A Smith <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2016 6:31:35 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Memo To Jeff Bezos: The Most Productive Workers
>> Are Team Players, Not Selfish Individualists | The Evolution Institute
>>
>> I am fascinated by this general area of consideration... the struggle
>> between individual and collective.  This study doesn't seem to tell us
>> much we didn't already know... for example, that it is easy to craft a
>> flawed experiment where what you thought you were optimizing (metabolic
>> egg production) is only part of the story and a secondary trait
>> (aggression) was being selected for unintentionally.   Any of us who
>> have lived or worked in a "collective" environment (or read a Dilbert
>> Cartoon?) have experienced this.
>>
>> I was *once* a raging individualist/Libertarian who wanted to believe
>> that the prime unit of survival was the individual, followed by the
>> nuclear family, followed by the clan, etc.!   As I have aged, two things
>> have overcome some of that: 1) I'm getting old and in (more) need of the
>> support of others, there are fewer and fewer things I can (or want to?)
>> do for myself (alone); 2) I've lived a life where I've experienced a
>> range of ways of being and I see how happy some people are *because*
>> they are part of a healthy collective (not as i had imagined in the
>> past, *in spite of* it!)
>>
>> This is naturally pretty anecdotal and roughly a sample of one, but
>> since it is *my* experience, I believe in it's relevance and veracity.
>> While we might have a wide spread of natures, experiences and conditions
>> on this list, I would propose that many here have a bit of both
>> tendencies...  high enough, individualistic abilities and interests to
>> become technologists (or choose the technological realm to conduct your
>> work), but also enough social skills/tolerance/preference to function
>> within one kind of institution or another.   We all have our stereotypes
>> about academia or government or industry to judge that one kind of
>> institution or the other is "better" or "worse" than the others about
>> this, but my experience is that they are more similar than different by
>> most measures.
>>
>> I raised my daughters to have a strong element of my individuality/loner
>> mentality and I feel (because I'm a doting father) that for the most
>> part I succeeded.   I also gave them enough exposure (acute example:
>> Public School System) to "systems" that would demand out of and train
>> them for a certain amount of compliance.   I didn't do this because I
>> was afraid they would fail or starve if they weren't socialized, I did
>> it because despite some of my own feral tendencies, I believe that we
>> are herd/pack/tribe animals and for the most part ARE happier in one
>> kind of milieu or another.   One is a PhD Virologist who is well
>> ensconced in the systems of bioresearch in the US (often to her chagrin)
>> but has the individualism to pursue grants on her own, to work long
>> hours on hard problems virtually nobody else can even talk to her about
>> ,etc.   The other has broken out of a string of administrative assistant
>> jobs over 1.5 decades to start her own cross-fit gym and paleo-nutrition
>> consultancy.   This requires equal amounts of individual
>> ability/motivation and herd instinct (else she wouldn't have adopted the
>> CrossFit(tm) brand and the Paleo appelation)...
>>
>> I now only work in *very* small teams, roughly 1-3, and usually where I
>> am either in charge of the work scope/strategy or I am the eager support
>> for a singular individual whose abilities I signficantly defer to.   At
>> LANL, I lead teams up to 6-8 in contexts of up to 30 or more on the same
>> larger "project" and it was always a stressor for me.  I didn't enjoy
>> deciding "what is best" for that many other people, even when their
>> instincts/affect and the organizational model entirely supported me in
>> that.   So my tenure in those roles was usually limited and always
>> self-terminated when I got too mired in those feelings (3-7 years).
>>
>> I deeply appreciate those who are good "outliers" on this spectrum...
>> those individualists who really can "pull it off" every time... the
>> protaganists of Robert A. Heinlein's novels, etc.   And on the other
>> end, I really respect those who manage to put themselves almost entirely
>> subservient to a system and yet maintain significant personal volition
>> and creativity.    If I could live my life again, with what I know, I
>> would probably attempt to apprehend that full spectrum and find ways to
>> engage all the way across it throughout my life.
>>
>> It might seem like a total non-sequitor, but I just listened to Terry
>> Gross interview Leonard Cohen about his new album: "You Want it Darker"
>> and his experience of living as a Monk in a Zen Monastery for years.  I
>> think the example he represents in the extrema of writing his own
>> poems/songs quite uniquely and seemingly in isolation to mixing it up
>> both "on Boogie Street" as one song references, but also in the Monastery.
>>
>> Mumble, Ramble off
>>
>> On 10/26/16 1:59 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> > Any organization needs a reason to stay together.   Reasons like profit
>> or safety.   Many organizations don't have profit sharing or the profit
>> sharing doesn't amount to much, and is not a big motivator.    On the other
>> extreme are organizations like nations or gangs that provide protection
>> from the `other'.     In the middle is where most of us live, and
>> organizations try to appeal to us by exaggerating the significance of the
>> reward they can offer or the punishment they can impose.
>> >
>> > Overall, I think managing individuals is often about undermining
>> individuals.   Making the organization robust to perturbation of a given
>> set of employees without asking why it is that employees would be so
>> inclined to cause a perturbation.    Also, it is expensive to invest in
>> career development, and I argue the trend toward building teams is in part
>> just a cost saving measure.   A `team' is just code for a preference (by
>> management) for particular personality trait -- extraversion.   People that
>> feel energized or just reassured by the presence of others as opposed to
>> those people that may find the ongoing needs of others a drain and a
>> distraction on their attention.
>> >
>> > If one can select such a set of people that don't expect intellectually
>> challenging work, or a greater purpose (intrinsic motivation) for what they
>> do, or ongoing escalations in salary or bonuses, isn't that just perfect
>> for the people at the top?   The value of the team for this sort of team
>> member _is_ the team.    There's no grand idea that makes them get up in
>> the morning (or fail to), they just want to be around their friends.   So
>> long as the members of the team are adequately competent, the work of the
>> organization will continue, if perhaps not in a Elon Musk / Steve Jobs sort
>> of fabulous way and life will go on.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Friam [mailto:[email protected]
>> <[email protected]>] On Behalf Of ?glen?
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 1:21 PM
>> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> [email protected]>
>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Memo To Jeff Bezos: The Most Productive Workers
>> Are Team Players, Not Selfish Individualists | The Evolution Institute
>> >
>> > I particularly liked this part:
>> >
>> >> Attributed to the once technical director of Real Madrid, Arrigo
>> Sacchi, is an insightful quote on this recruitment model “Today’s football
>> [soccer] is about managing the characteristics of individuals…The
>> individual has trumped the collective. But it’s a sign of weakness. It’s
>> reactive, not proactive”. It seems that Sacchi saw in soccer the same thing
>> that Muir discovered in his experiments 12 years earlier; teams constructed
>> to function as a collective are the ones that will enhance the qualities of
>> the individuals within it and prosper.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/26/2016 12:17 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>> >> A little nudge to you libertarians out there from your favorite
>> >> Bleeding heart liberal:
>> >>
>> >> https://evolution-institute.org/article/memo-to-jeff-bezos-the-most-pr
>> >> oducti
>> >> ve-workers-are-team-players-not-selfish-individualists/?source=tvol
>> >
>> > --
>> > ␦glen?
>> >
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