Fascinating Frank, thanks for the link!
Having been something like an anarchist (not Anarchist) most of my life,
I never felt threatened by or implicated in "Populism"... I'm a bit of
a knee-jerk anti-popular/ist on most topics, which I have to curb when
the stakes go up. Just because Xx10^Y people think something is a good
idea, doesn't mean it is a deeply stupid one (though it is a hint that
it might be). Or maybe instead I should say, I have *always* felt
threatened (albeit only mildly) by "popular" movements which includes
but is not limited to "populist" movements as I now understand the term
to be applicable.
It is also worth noting that I find many people use "fascism" somewhat
differently than I do.
1. often associated with governing bodies: "fascist government!"
2. often reserved for those specifically who enforce laws: "fascist pigs!"
3. regularly associated with Nazi Germany: "fascist Nazi!"
4. sometimes associated with corporate fascism as made popular by Mussolini
My own working definition is any system which holds it's own survival
and smooth operations above the well being of those which the system
ostensibly serves. This tends to gather up all of the above but also
applies to bureaucracy in any context (government, corporate, etc.) I
would even claim that fascism can be embodied and implemented by a
system *without* humans involved in the perpetuation of it's actions...
this means that the people operating in a fascistly bureacratic context
may not be particularly culpable themselves (watch Terry Gilliam's
"Brazil").
My understand of the term might really just involve the specific
"authoritarian" aspect of it, but I *do* make the distinction that there
is an important "mindlessness" to it that makes it insidious... thus a
single authoritarian figure is never nearly as fascist as an institution
(in my mind). Thus, a single rogue cop who takes his job too seriously
is not nearly as "fascist" as an entire department which collectively
behaves in this manner and inducts/indoctrinates new members into the
same mindset as a matter of course.
In my mind, the Donald is not particularly "fascistic" himself, but his
followers and the machine I suspect he has created to run his businesses
(and soon our government) probably IS quite fascistic.
<rant off>
On 11/10/16 8:56 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Interesting, Steve. "Populism" has long had a negative meaning for
me. Maybe that's because I took a couple of undergraduate courses
that focussed on Huey Long. In one of them (at Berkeley) the claim
was made that Roosevelt saved the US from more radical solutions,
represented by Long, with the New Deal. Ironically, my father's
uncle, who was also a Louisiana politician, was a sometimes enemy of
his. Uncle Shirley Wimberly wrote a monograph in which he referred to
Long as "the Crawfish". He was usually called the Kingfish.
Here's the reference:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/unmasking-crawfish-huey-p-long/oclc/9752600
Frank Wimberly
Phone(505) 670-9918 <tel:%28505%29%20670-9918>
On Nov 10, 2016 8:43 PM, "Steven A Smith" <sasm...@swcp.com
<mailto:sasm...@swcp.com>> wrote:
Until fairly recently I didn't realize that "Populism" carried a
negative connotation. I had always heard it as a positive thing...
The tie between populism and the rise of fascism changed that for
me. I suppose *pure* populism is in fact fine, the awareness
that the general population, the overwhelming majority of the
citizenry, when pushed, can stand up to the elite (economic or
political or both) who tend to find ways to run things for their
own purposes without regard to the interests of the masses.
It seems that the current use of the term "populism" implies that
the extant elite de-facto rulers can have THEIR lunch handed to
them by another elite set of wanna-bes through the duping of the
populace. Hitler's rise to power was apparently on the rising
tide of a disaffected populace through the use of "demagoguery,
scapegoating, and conspiracism" according to Fritzsche. This
sounds just a bit (lot) too much like the working style of Herr
Donald Drumpf this round.
I don't like being manipulated by "the powers that be", but it
isn't a bit more fun to have "the powers that wanna be" manipulate
me into helping them have their wishes. I *hope* some of Trumps
Trumpeteers come to recognize how they were duped in what to me
seems like a fairly obvious manner.
And meanwhile I hope that the rest of the world can learn
something of this movement from us (and the Brexiteers before us).
<sigh>
On 11/10/16 7:40 PM, Sarbajit Roy wrote:
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
<http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/>
It seems that depressed economies imply we are going to have a
rash of fascism everywhere. Here's to World War III. Cheers.
On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Gary Schiltz
<g...@naturesvisualarts.com <mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>>
wrote:
Well put. This is not a game.
On Tuesday, November 8, 2016, Marcus Daniels
<mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
"The fact that world H and world D are such closely
adjacent possibles is what I am savoring (in the sense of
morbid fascination) for roughly the next 24-36 hours. "
To first order, this isn't about the ideological
aspirations of one candidate vs. the other (or the
completely irrelevant others). It's about choosing
between a person who can and has managed in relevant
circumstances, and a man-child that obviously needs to be
managed and who obviously draws-from and amplifies the
worst in people, has many indicators of an authoritarian
personality, and is a likely target for blackmail and
manipulation by foreign powers. The potential upside of
this non-contest is that a thinker and policy wonk may
sneak through as the winner by default. Even stranger is
that it would be historic -- and somehow that is almost a
footnote. The whole thing is surreal and even scarier
than Brexit.
Marcus
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