Robert -

Being open-minded does not mean you are brainwashed. Quite the opposite I would think ...
I don't know if this is responsive to your specific intent, but when I first heard it, it was a powerful point and fit *way* too many people I know who *purport* to be "open minded" (after all, who actually *claims* to be otherwise?).

   /"Having an open mind, means just about anyone can pour just about
   anything into it!"

   /

I find (too) often that people use the phrase "be open minded" as a jeer or an intimidation tactic meaning something more like "If you refuse to believe what I do, you are being close-minded". I *especially* find this happening among Trump supporters right now. But it also happens among my stronger conspiracy-theorist friends (who are, surprise, Trumpians!)... those who start with "fouride in the water is a gubbmin't mind-control plot" and tend to end up somewhere around "We are all descended from Atlanteans who were really aliens who gene-spliced in our special form of intelligence and other hidden powers most people can't access, because they don't believe!"




On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:

    "The rigging is, IMHO, of not doing anything about the unabated
    and disproportionate flow of wealth to the top and, hence, giving
    rise to the resulting, ever-skewing, descriptive Pareto
    distribution of wealth versus population.  It certainly does seem
    like an increasing biasing of the metaphorical /fair /coin [e.g.,
    the busted "trickle down" metaphor of President Ronald Reagan]."


    I think it depends in part on the source of the wealth and how it
    is used.   There's a qualitative difference between a Google and a
    payday loan company that preys on the poor.   Are these wealthy
    people creating new high-paying jobs or locking-in people to
    dead-end jobs like coal mining?  Do they have a vision of
    advancement of humanity (Gates) or just a unnecessary assertion of
    the `need' for a lowest-common-denominator dog-eat-dog view of
    things?  How does their wealth and power matter in the long run?
       It is at least good that there isn't just one kind of
    billionaire, like the sort that destroys the environment and
    enslaves people.


    A problem with government is that the agency it gives people is
    either very limited (you get food stamps so you can eat), or it is
    also hierarchical like these enterprises (you don't get much
    agency unless you fight your way up or are an elected official).
    For people to truly be free means creating a commons that
    facilitates other kinds of motivators that are rewarding in more
    complex ways than just salary or status.   Universities don't
    really deliver on this, except perhaps for some professors who are
    in that world for most of their adult life.


    I would say neoliberalism is trying to engineer biased coins that
    land in a coordinated ways to build something more complex.   One
    way is with trade laws.


    Marcus


    P.S. RT is the Russian Propaganda news outlet.   Of course, they'd
    have their own motives for wanting to diminish Chinese power.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com
    <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on behalf of Robert Wall
    <wallrobe...@gmail.com <mailto:wallrobe...@gmail.com>>
    *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:57:14 PM
    *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
    *Subject:* [FRIAM] Nautilus: Investing Is More Luck Than Talent
    This is just an exploratory thought piece to try in this forum ...
    please skip if it seems, right off the bat, as being too
    thought-full ... 😴😊

    Does *Pareto's Principle
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle> *(with the
    attending, so-called Power Law
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law>) provide good
    _moral_ justification for an amped-up progressive tax strategy or
    a reverse-discriminating set of rebalancing policies [e.g.,
    changing the probabilities for the "everyman"]?  And, is the
    argument one of *morality *or one of *necessity*?  That's what
    this thread and the subject /Nautilus /article intend to explore,
    especially with the events that will begin the next four years
    tomorrow.

        /Nautilus/: Investing Is More Luck Than Talent
        
<http://nautil.us/issue/44/luck/investing-is-more-luck-than-talent?utm_source=Nautilus&utm_campaign=f5f998a451-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_01_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dc96ec7a9d-f5f998a451-56531089>
 (January
        19, 2017).

            /The surprising message of the statistics of wealth
            distribution./


        /I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the
        swift, nor the battle to the strong, /
        /neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of
        understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill, /
        /but time and chance happeneth to them all./(Ecclesiastes 9:11)


    [*an introductory aside*: As computational statisticians, we love
    our simulations ... and our coin tosses. 😎 We are always mindful
    of *bias *... as, say, apparent with the ever-widening wealth gap.
    Money, Money, Money
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0> ...] 😊

            Inline image 1


    So, as described in the subject /Nautilus /article, Pareto's
    Principle, descriptively seen so often in nature, seems to imply
    that the current widening wealth gap is, well, "natural?"  Judging
    by its prevalence in most all rich societies, it does seem so.
    However, remembering that this sorting process works even with
    /fair /coin tosses in investments and gambling, this process
    phenomenon with its biased outcomes seems to occur in many places
    and on many levels ...

    For example, we find this aspect of /luck in nature/ elsewhere in
    biological processes; from /Wikipedia /... /Chance and Necessity:
    Essay on the Natural Philosophy of Modern Biology/ is a 1970 book
    by Nobel Prize winner Jacques Monod, interpreting the processes of
    evolution to show that life is only the result of natural
    processes by "pure chance." The basic tenet of this book is that
    systems in nature with molecular biology, such as enzymatic
    biofeedback loops [/metabolisms/] can be explained without having
    to invoke final causality [e.g., Intelligent Design].

    Usually, relatively very few winners and many, many losers.
    Phenotypical luck or luck in tectonic location?

        According to the introduction the book's title was inspired by
        a line attributed to Democritus
        <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus>, "Everything
        existing in the universe is the fruit of chance and necessity."


    But, is there a /necessity /to Pareto's Principle? To answer this
    I must defer to my theoretical mathematician friends who so often
    look to Plato for such answers. 🤔😊  My thought is that the
    necessity comes from a need to, perhaps teleologically, react to
    it ... as the planet's only available potential intelligent
    designers ... the purpose being, on some scale, Darwinian-level
    survival.

    And, this aspect of /fate by chance/ is also reasoned in the
    Pulitzer-winning/ Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human
    Societies is a 1997/, a transdisciplinary non-fiction book by
    Jared Diamond, professor of geography and physiology at the
    University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA).


        The book attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations
        (including North Africa) have survived and conquered others,
        while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due
        to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent
        genetic superiority. Diamond argues that the gaps in power and
        technology between human societies originate primarily in
        environmental differences, which are amplified by various
        positive feedback loops. When cultural or genetic differences
        have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the
        development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic
        diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because
        of the influence of geography on societies and cultures (for
        example, by facilitating commerce and trade between different
        cultures) and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes.
        [Wikipedia]


    The luck of geography.  So then, should the more fortunate nations
    be more progressively taxed?  Maybe we should ask Greece? Or see
    what Germany has to say? Followers of egalitarianism would argue
    yes. Followers of Ayn Rand's capitalism or her Objectivism [like
    Speaker Paul Ryan] would argue no. I think most of the rest of us
    fall somewhere in between; that is, not sure. So, let's go on ...

    *Is the (economic) game rigged* then, as Bernie Sanders and
    Elizabeth Warren have insisted? Personally, I would say absolutely
    yes, and *neoliberalism *is the underlying philosophy of the
    rigging process
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9wUGxgEFsw> [hear just the 1st
    12 minutes, if you watch].  But, maybe this political ideology is
    just one that is eventually spawned by a conspicuous need for
    moralistic or even Randian justification, by the winners, for its
    resulting destructiveness--as we so often hear, "wealth
    accumulation is based on hard work and talent."  So, intelligent
    design?

    The rigging is, IMHO, of not doing anything about the unabated and
    disproportionate flow of wealth to the top and, hence, giving rise
    to the resulting, ever-skewing, descriptive Pareto distribution of
    wealth versus population. It certainly does seem like an
    increasing biasing of the metaphorical /fair /coin [e.g., the
    busted "trickle down" metaphor of President Ronald Reagan].

    Going forward, maybe we need to think about this neoliberal meme
    as the next four years, with a* President Donald Trump*, begin
    tomorrow  ... while also remembering that *morality *is a human
concept or "invention." Or is it?Or, does that even matter?! Perhaps, morality is just a necessity ... but what are its goals
    ... dare I say its "purpose?"  When did it emerge? With
    consciousness?  How did it emerge?  By chance, as Monad and
    Democritus would insist?
    *
    *
    *_Conjecture_*: *It would seem that morality's human purpose is to
    check, slow, or rebalance the effects of the Pareto phenomenon in
    social and economic processes.*  Wealth has always been
    disproportionately distributed. Surely, just like the "selfish
    gene," morality arose out of self-interest; so it arose with
    prerequisite consciousness and *not *necessarily just with human
    consciousness [e.g., we see evidence of "morality" in other
    primate social systems]. As a system model, neoliberalism is
    connected with a positive feedback loop to morality and with a
    negative feedback loop to social stability. I think that there is
    a tipping-point distribution of wealth versus population
    
<https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-02-04/is-inequality-approaching-a-tipping-point->.
    *_
    _*
    *_Conclusion_*: The above conjecture is borne up by chance and
    necessity.  The necessity is manifested by the need to rebalance
    the outcomes of the game [e.g., wealth or opportunity] every now
    and then, in order to ensure social stability. This just seems
    like a brain-dead conclusion that even Warren Buffet and Bill
    Gates get. But will Trump?  Strong critics of Hillary Clinton
    imply that she, like her husband, would surely have strengthened
    the negative feedback effect of neoliberalism toward their own
    self-interest and toward worsening social stability, IMHO.  The
    results of the November election are a kind of testament to this
    conclusion. In an unexpected way, we may have a /chance /with
    Trump to bring even more /necessary /awareness to the
    aforementioned system model that has often played out in human
history and as recounted in Jared Diamond's book-length essays. Bernie-style revolution? Perhaps.

    So, that is the idea of how /chance /and /necessity /fits here in
    "the game.". Now, let's dig into this idea of *morality *a bit
    more and how it fits in with the need for a different kind of
    evolution, not biological, but *conscious evolution*:

        This comment from a /Quora /article on this subject titled Is
        morality merely a social construct or something more?
        
<https://www.quora.com/Is-morality-merely-a-social-construct-or-something-more> 
is
        notable:

            Mindaugas Kuprionis
            <https://www.quora.com/profile/Mindaugas-Kuprionis>, works
            at CERN

            Written 17 Sep 2010
            
<https://www.quora.com/Is-morality-merely-a-social-construct-or-something-more/answer/Mindaugas-Kuprionis>


            Just recently Edge.org <https://www.edge.org/>held a
            conference titled "The New Science of Morality
            <https://www.edge.org/event/the-new-science-of-morality>".
            Consensus statement signed by several scholars (list
            below) was such:


            1) Morality is a natural phenomenon and a cultural phenomenon

            2) Many of the psychological building blocks of morality
            are innate

            3) Moral judgments are often made intuitively, with little
            deliberation or conscious weighing of evidence and
            alternatives

            4) Conscious moral reasoning plays multiple roles in our
            moral lives

            5) Moral judgments and values are often at odds with
            actual behavior

            6) Many areas of the brain are recruited for moral
            cognition, yet there is no "moral center" in the brain

            7) Morality varies across individuals and cultures

            8) Moral systems support human flourishing, to varying
            degrees  [aside-- so morality may be akin to metabolic
            systems at the level of society --regulating feedback
            loops of sorts]

                [*aside*--  Fyodor Dostoyevsky's /Crime and Punishment
                /comes to mind.  Under this eight-point new science,
                how would we judge the "higher-purpose" actions of
                Rodion Raskolnikov?]


    So if it is true that there is no distributional *purpose *to
    l/uck /other than a mechanistic, long-run, teleonomic
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleonomy> sorting mechanism of
    outcomes in accordance with a Power Law, then should there be a
    /necessary/, periodic re-sorting of the initial conditions now
    skewed by /chance /...  like with a deck of cards before the next
    deal ...? 🤔  All poker players would insist on no less.  Don't we
    all insist on a /fair /game?  It's an interesting question, IMHO.
    Yes, I know; lots to unpack here.  Sorry. Nonetheless, I thought
    the /Nautilus /article was quite thought-provoking as they always
    seem to be.
    Cheers,

    -Robert

    ============================================================
    FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
    Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
    to unsubscribe
    http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
    <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
    FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
    <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove




============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Reply via email to