Well, Dave promised to give us a gist of Wagner. And Grant has chimed in regarding the stochasticity of crossover, which provoked an inadequate response from Nick, if I remember correctly. Since you're actively reading Wagner now, Nick, perhaps you could give us a summary of what he might have meant by Jenny's quote? Repeated here for convenience:
On 8/9/17 8:56 AM, Jenny Quillien wrote: > > An excellent foray into such a topic is Arrival of the Fittest: how nature > innovates by Andreas Wagner. > > From the Preface: the power of natural selection is beyond dispute, but this > power has limits. Natural selection can preserve innovations, but it cannot > create them. And calling the change that creates them random is just another > way of admitting our ignorance about it. Nature's any innovations- some > uncannily perfect - call for natural principles that accelerate life's > ability to innovate, its innovability. > On 08/22/2017 08:10 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > I have been trying to get somebody to tussle with me over this claim since it > was first made. > I think it’s nonsense, but I am not sure. > > *From:*Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles > *Sent:* Monday, August 21, 2017 8:11 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] random v stochastic v indeterminate > > > > Sorry to pull at a still thread, but I find this claim fascinating. > "Natural selection can /preserve/ innovations, but it cannot create them." > > Would we say the same of artificial selection? I'm pretty sure we would > normally claim that artificial selection has lead to all sorts of > innovations. Maybe I'm thinking of "innovations" more broadly than is > intended?!? Aren't the baring and tail-wagging, multi-colored, short-snouted, > cuddly foxes an example of innovation? (For those who don't know, it takes a > pretty short number of generations to turn wild foxes into reasonable > approximations of domestic dogs, and all you have to do is select against > aggression towards humans.) > > I know what the quote is trying to get at, but I'm not sure it holds up in > the wider context of things-that-cause biological innovation. -- gⅼеɳ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
