[sorry] And please note that I didn't say "If you *can* make it happen, then 
you *do* understand it." That's not true. Just because I digest my food doesn't 
mean I understand food digestion, despite it being a constructive proof of the 
existence of digestion. The making is necessary for understanding, but maybe 
not sufficient.

On 12/12/19 9:38 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> Heh, I worried you (or someone else) might go there, which is why I included 
> the addendum about manipulation. There are some of us (me included) who think 
> there is no such thing as creation or innovation, only differentiation and 
> manipulation. But others allow for wide or narrow definitions of it. I have a 
> whole constellation of colleagues who believe "innovation" is a real thing, 
> for example. I've also mentioned on this list that I like the word 
> "naturfact" to indicate something modified by humans, as opposed to an 
> "artifact", which seems to carry an implication of pure synthesis.
> 
> So, if we adopt the manipulationist conception of constructive explanations, 
> we don't need to go down the rabbit hole of "what is creation". You're still 
> under requirement by Feynman, which I'll rephrase:
> 
>   If you can't *make* it happen, then you don't understand it.
> 
> E.g. I can't, for my life, tell a joke. Therefore, I clearly don't understand 
> humor. But to answer more directly, as Dave pointed out, a line of code is 
> just another arrangement of the 1s and 0s extant in the machine in the form 
> of high and low voltage. So, a line of code is nothing more than an 
> arrangement of extant stuff, a naturfact, as it were. And where did the 1s 
> and 0s come from(?), some other constructive explanations like how to make a 
> transistor. And where did that come from?  Etc.
> 
> This is what you're paper cries out for. A tutorial on how to write the 
> Methods section of bench science paper.
> 
> On 12/12/19 9:24 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> It is redolent with Pragmatism ... a concern with the "practicial", as Eric 
>> insists that I say.  But there is something else lurking here which blind 
>> sided me and which I need to think hard about.  It's the word "creation".   
>> Now, you computer folks are truly Gods to me; to me, you create stuff all 
>> the time.  To me, perhaps in my naivety, one of those crazy-mad cellular 
>> automata, that's life and somebody has created it.  Did Schelling create 
>> segregation.  By god, I think he did. Did Steve Guerin create ants.  Yup, by 
>> god, he did.  So when a computer scientist, programmer, software engineer, 
>> ai person, whatever you guys prefer to call yourselves, starts talking about 
>> "creation", my ears perk up. 
>>
>> What the hell is the meaning of 'creation" in those sentences above?  Here's 
>> a  proposal: One has "created", when one has written a recipe for emergence. 
>>  One collects stamps; one creates a cake.  
>>
>> Is it possible that my model of monism is based on my understanding of a 
>> line of code.  It would not be the first time that a theory in once 
>> discipline was based on an imperfect understanding of another.  
>>
>> How you drive my thinking on!  
> 

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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