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Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [email protected] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:05 PM To: FriAM <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Murdoch and Trump On 1/22/20 12:23 PM, <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] wrote: > [*/NST===>] Not Epstein himself, but another < > <https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=006433492719462442300:_7mu_xxuwwu&q=http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/12/1/10.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiTuKne9ZfnAhVXK80KHfufBS8QFjAJegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw17l4TL-F4470Z31g-ieHBv> > > https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=006433492719462442300:_7mu_xxuwwu&q=http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/12/1/10.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiTuKne9ZfnAhVXK80KHfufBS8QFjAJegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw17l4TL-F4470Z31g-ieHBv>, > and yet another < <http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/15/3/1.html> > http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/15/3/1.html>, who took issue with us both. Thanks. I've read those two responses. [NST===>] Glen, you ARE amazing. > */I think I want to take the position that if the structure of the a > model does not mimic the structure of the phenomenon it models IN SOME > IMPORTANT RESPECT, then its predictive value is irrelevant to its > explanatory value./* I tend to agree. But I don't fully agree. You've just kicked the can down the road with your "some important respect". Important when? To whom? For what purpose? Etc. What kind of respect? How much of that respect? Etc. [NST===>] I am trying to catch up the the damned can as quick as I am able. It turns into one of those statements that's SOOOOO general as to be useless. This is why "models as artifacts absent their modeling context" is a critical concept. And studying models as 1st class objects, in themselves, regardless of their referent, is a critical thing to do. [NST===>] Of course, I value the relation between the logical structure of models and their products, irrespective of what use they might be put to. Isn’t that mathematics? > */I wonder if we could continue this discussion using the Schelling > Model < <http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation> > http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation> as an > example. Perhaps we could exemplify the use and impact of the > following terms with respect to this familiar, simple, but > nonetheless, compelling, model. /* Why choose the Schelling Model? It's way more complex than my example of a wooden sphere modeling a baseball ... it gives you all sorts of wiggle room to get confused and to confuse others. You may *think* it's simple. But it's not.[NST===>] Is a wooden sphere less complex than the Schelling Model? It all depends upon “surplus” meaning. If you stipulate that the wood sphere is “perfect” then you have stripped away anything about a wooden sphere that makes it a WOODEN sphere. [NST===>] I once modeled for a class the fact that if you pet a cat, it arches its back, by nailing a piece of fox fur to aboard and showing them that if you petted the pinned fur, it arched its back. If true, why is that interesting? Why EXACTLY is it interesting. What work is the model doing here? It seems to me that the Schelling Model has the same kind of impact. Years ago, I tried to get a discussion of emergence going on this site using the model of three one by twos, connected with hinges as my model. I asserted that we did not have to talk about life, or consciousness, or any of the mysteries that we so like to discuss here, in order to get at the fundamental issues in emergence. All we need three hinges with removable pins and three sticks of wood, and we can be just as confused as we are when we discuss the “Origins of Life”. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
