Gary, others interested

https://objectguild.com/papers/westProgrammingHard2019.pdf

davew

On Sat, Feb 8, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
> Please post a link to your paper. I for one would love to read it. 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 3:45 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote:
>> __
>> Jon,
>> 
>> As an observer of software "engineering" since its inception in 1968 (my 
>> first job as a programmer was that fall, and that spring/summer is when the 
>> NATO conference first coined the phrase), I can and will (braggadocio here) 
>> state that most software CANNOT be engineered, precision or otherwise, and 
>> all that we have learned in the past 52 years in both computer science and 
>> software engineering is essentially irrelevant to the production of 
>> application level software.
>> 
>> The protocols that ensure cat photos are scattered into packets traversing 
>> vast segments of the Internet to be reassembled and presented on you phone 
>> in real time, is an example of the minority of software that can be 
>> engineered. The vote counting app _could not have been_.
>> 
>> The difference is that the first replicates, in software, a deterministic 
>> machine with limited variables, all of which can be known and quantified, 
>> limited relations among variables, all of which can be known and stated; and 
>> the second one is a complex system where variables and relations are highly 
>> dynamic, idiosyncratic, and, often, quite literally unknowable.
>> 
>> I just completed a sixty-page essay on this subject "Why Programming is Hard 
>> and Software Development is (Mostly) Impossible" that addresses this issue. 
>> If you would like to read, let me know and I will send you a link or the 
>> paper.
>> 
>> Making things worse is the superstructure around software development — all 
>> the methodologies, all the frameworks, all the management levels, all the 
>> practices that supposedly guide/govern the process of developing software.
>> 
>> Icing on the cake, is attitude. Those that contract for software EXPECT that 
>> the project will fail and/or that what they get will be a pale imitation of 
>> what they wanted, full of bugs and inconsistencies. The development team 
>> also EXPECTS the project to fail, for different reasons, but fail 
>> nevertheless.
>> 
>> And roughly 90-percent of the time both sides have their expectations 
>> realized. (60-65 % of projects started are abandoned without any delivery, 
>> the other 20-25 percent are those pale imitations over budget and taking 
>> twice the time.)
>> 
>> One more factor - the game is rigged. Those that might actually be able to 
>> deliver reasonable software applications are not allowed to play in the 
>> game. Acronym and Shadow came into existence because people in Hillary 
>> Clinton's campaign thought they saw a way to make money and used their 
>> connections to get established and make contracts. The "bid" process was 
>> laughable, the specs being written such that no one but Shadow could comply 
>> and in a time frame that Microsoft, et. al. were not able to respond 
>> adequately.
>> 
>> Half a billion dollars were spent on the Obamacare website and another 
>> half-billion to get it to work after the initial failure. A startup team of 
>> Web-developers built the site with full functionality, including calculating 
>> subsidies (supposedly the hard part) in a week. Their site was demoed on 
>> Sixty Minutes. But they would never have been allowed to bid on the original 
>> project because they did not meet Federal procurement guidelines which were 
>> rigged to very large companies most of whom have a remarkably long history 
>> of spectacular failures on past projects.
>> 
>> Frothing at the mouth so much, am at risk of dehydration.
>> 
>> dave
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020, at 8:54 PM, Jon Zingale wrote:
>>> My intention in drawing attention to critical application
>>> development is an attempt to deepen the discussion
>>> around 'apps' and rhetoric. In the discussions around
>>> app usage in the democratic primaries, the target appears
>>> to be the vulnerability which exists today because
>>> programmers today are a bunch of python hacks who
>>> never read Knuth. Yet, not a single Friam mother-church
>>> meeting passes without a discussion of the precision
>>> engineering embodied in our Porches, Teslas, or iphones.
>>> 
>>> Of particular interest to me in directing this rhetorical frame
>>> are the so-called-on-wikipedia FBI-Apple encryption dispute 
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute>
>>> and the Target corp data breach <https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.04940.pdf> of 
>>> 2013. In the first case,
>>> the federal government is confronted by the reality that a
>>> phone manufacturer *can* in fact make cryptographically
>>> challenging hand held devices. Further we can use this
>>> powerful technology for sending our family cat pictures
>>> which arrive at their target destinations almost without
>>> fail and near instantaneously. There is a sense of *justified*
>>> *indignation* when the cat photo takes more than a second
>>> to be delivered. The state-of-the-art is such that we *can*
>>> have nice things.
>>> 
>>> In the second case, a data breach is exploited in the POS system
>>> of big box corporation which sells mostly useless things. Next,
>>> a public rhetoric emerges similar to the rhetoric I am witnessing
>>> here with the democratic primaries. Instead of pointing out that
>>> Target corp doesn't consider our privacy a critical concern, we
>>> speak of how impossible it is to have privacy and how vulnerable
>>> we feel because Target corp is a critical institution.
>>> 
>>> Jon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ============================================================
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>> 
>> 
>> ============================================================
>>  FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>  Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>  to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>  archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>>  FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Reply via email to