India. Being afraid is a good thing. It heightens our senses, causes us to be better prepared to react against threats (dictators) when they happen. As of now our 2 mutual (respective ?) dictators are confabulating.
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:23 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > I suppose, as a behaviorist, I have to conclude that “being afraid” is a > doing. What else would you do? > > > > Are you afraid of dictators where you are? Where ARE you, by the way. I > am guessing UK or India, but I don’t want to presume. > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Sarbajit Roy > *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:39 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question > > > > Hi Nick > > > > To reply to your question, > > > > a) I would not be living in the US if I could help it In fact I have > never come anywhere close to the USA for a variety of reasons. > > b) If I were living in the US I would be very scared of dictators > > > > Sarbajit > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:58 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Enclosing every elephant in the room is a larger, more hideous, elephant > in the room. It’s elephants-in-the-room all the way down. > > > > Sarbajit, human to human. If you lived in the United States, what would > you now be doing? > > > > N > > > > > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Sarbajit Roy > *Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 8:20 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] A longer response to Dave's question > > > > Nick > > > 1. Since Christ has never been proved to have existed, it seems to me (as > a non-psychologist) those consuming his 'blood' religiously appear as > victims/participants of group mass delusions reinforced by their regular > shared consumption of a narcotic in a controlled environment replete with > symbols to reinforce their delusion. > > > > 2. Now to your more important question for us outside the USA. "*Is > Trump a proto-dictator? What are the consequences in experience of > believing that he is? What does that belief cause us to expect in him. *" > > In my view, and in the *view of many non-Americans* > <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/20/opinion/taliban-afghanistan-war-haqqani.html>, > it is the nation of USA collectively which is the tyrannical dictatorship, > and it is quite irrelevant who heads it (symbolically), because all US > Presidents carry on the same acts of raining bombs from the sky on those > who disagree with US policies or the US' aforesaid mass delusion called > Christianity. > > > > Sarbajit Roy > > Brahma University > > > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:31 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Geez, Dave, > > There's an awful lot here. Do you mean to take the hardest case? A > person? And particularly a person who has been so much in all our faces > that it's hard for most of us to think of him rationally, if at all? > > Let's take a simpler example. An example that Peirce takes is > transubstantiation, the idea that in ritual of the mass the communion wine > becomes the blood of Christ. Once consecrated, is the communion "beverage" > wine or blood? Let's say we disagree on that point. We both see that it's > a red liquid in a chalice, on which basis we jump to different > conclusions. From the properties or redness and liquidness that the > substance in the chalice shares with both blood and wine, you abduce that > it is wine, I abduce that it is blood. So far, we stand equal. But now the > chalice is brought to our lips. For me, (forgive me, Catholics, for I know > not what I say) I feel momentarily cleansed of my sins, uplifted. Since > part of my conception of Christ's blood is that if I drank some of it I > would feel cleansed and uplifted, I conclude that it is indeed, Christs' > blood. You, on the other hand, experience the flat, sour taste of > inexpensive wine, feel no uplift whatsoever, and conclude that the chalice > contains wine. We are still on equal footing. > > But now the science begins. We whisk away the stuff in the chalice to > the laboratory. As a preliminary, each of us is asked to list in their > entirety all the effects of our conception. We are being asked to > *deduce* from the categories to which we have *abduced*, the consequences > of our abductions They are numerous, but to simply the discussion, lets > say each of us lists five. I say, if it is Christ's blood, then I should > feel transformed when drinking it, and then I pause. The scientists also > pause, pencils in hand, and I have to go on. Well, in addition to its > red-liquidity, I say, it should be slightly salty-sweet to taste, be thick > on the tongue, curdle when heated, sustain life of somebody in need of a > transfusion, etc. So we do the tests, and the results are yes, no, no, > no, no. The scientists now turn to you and you say, it should, as well as > red and liquid, be sour, thin on the tongue, intoxicating in large amounts, > produce a dark residue when heated, etc.. So, the tests come out yes, yes, > yes, yes, yes. > > So, is it really blood or really wine? Well, that of course depends on > one’s priorities. If the sole criterion for a red fluid being Christ’s > blood is that it produces in one person, Nick Thompson, a sense of > cleansing, then the fact that it doesn’t pass any of the other tests for > blood will make no difference. I can assert that that Christ’s blood is a > very special sort of blood that cleanses the spirit of Nick Thompson, but > does none of the other things that blood does. Indeed, I might assert that > anything the priest handed me in the chalice, once duly consecrated, would > be Christ’s blood. The idea that it “works for me” makes it “Christ’s > blood for me and that’s all that matters. And if I could bring a regiment > of Spanish soldiers with spears to friam, and have them insist that you > drink from the chalice and feel cleansed, many of you might begin to agree > with me. > > This is the view of pragmatism that James has been accused of, but it is > definitely NOT the view that Peirce held. If the position is, “whatever > the officiant says is christs blood is christ’s blood by definition”, then, > Piece would say the position is either > > Meaningless or false. It might be meaningless, because there is no > possible world in which it could be false. Or it might be false, because > our best guess as scientists is that in the very long run, in the > asymptote of scientific inquiry, our best scientific guess is that the > contents of the chalice will be agreed upon to be wine. > > Again, let me apologize for my ignorant rendition of Catholic ritual. It > IS the example that Peirce takes, but I now see that that is probably a > poor excuse. Peirce was, after all, a protestant, and one with many > prejudices, so it would not surprise me if he was anti-catholic and himself > chose the example in a mean-spirited way. So, be a little careful in how > you respond. > > Is Trump a proto-dictator? What are the consequences in experience of > believing that he is? What does that belief cause us to expect in him. > Tim Snyder, in his little book ON TYRANNY, does a very good job of laying > out the parallels between what is going on in our politics right now and > what goes on in the early stages of the establishment o a dictatorship. > Trump is fulfilling many of Snyder’s expectations. Whether Trump succeeds > in establishing a dictatorship or not, I think the long run of history will > conclude that he is making a stab at it. > > Nick > > > > > > Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > > > Clark University > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
