Hey Nick, you just re-conceived and articulated, very briefly, Minsky's Society of Mind.
davew On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 9:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Glen has lumbered me down with an obligation to steelman every idea I find > absurd, and so I feel obligated to try with this absurd idea of dual > consciousness, a consciousness that acts, and a consciousness that decides to > act. I have always felt that some day you guys would help me do this. So, ok, > now? > > So, let it be the case that we are a disorganized bunch of behavioral > tendencies bundled up in a single body. Now, one selection principle which > follows from this model is that is not captured most of the time by one of > these tendancies is likely to be less fit than one that is. Dithering usually > is selected against. > > Now what is the structure of a brain that mediates between them. Well, it > could just let them fight over control of the machinery. But such battles > might be costly. Is there a better way. > > Well, let’s introduce a module whose job it is to extract is from such > conflicts. It has its own connections to crucial points in the competing > systems. It samples these systems and heads off conflict by making its own > assessment of which system is going to win. When assessment is made, > attention is directed toward the parts of the world that lead to one of the > two actions that the competing systems are advocating. And that redirection > is experienced as , Deciding to do x. > > I am sure you guys could easily write a computer that would both dither and > have a separate dither-reduction system. Kinda like sudden death overtime. > > Nick > > Nicholas Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > Clark University > [email protected] > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 8:38 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] consciousness conundrum > > I grew up with rodeo cowboys (ab)using "horse tranks" on themselves as much > as on their horses (shoeing/trailering/etc.) I never saw anyone "riding the > k-pony" much less "in a k-hole" but that could easily have been masked by the > pervasive alcohol (ab)use. I didn't know this was Ketamine until later. I > heard the term "riding the k-pony" but not "k-hole"... probably a more modern > term? > I did some work > <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0167278984902598> in > the early 80's with an anesthesiologist who was full of anecdotes about how > anesthesiology was still more an art than a science and his prime exhibit was > a recently deprecated cocktail which A) induced paralysis; and B) yielded > short-term amnesia. The way they figured this out apparently was that a > variation *also* included low levels of Ketamine... not enough to be the > primary anesthetic, but to induce modest dissociation "on the way in and out" > to reduce anxiety? Those with the Ketamine-laced cocktail fared *much* better > in recovery, as *apparently* the others were psychologically traumatized by > the experience (imagine paralysis during surgery, even with amnesia), even > though they didn't have any physical side effects. > My only personal experience with anesthesia was whilst having all 4 > (impacted) wisdom teeth removed in my late teens. I can't say I was present > for the whole procedure, but I definitely remembered a LOT of details that I > didn't think I should have experienced. It was not traumatic, and I think it > must have been the strongest experience I've had with dissociation. I can't > say it was particularly compelling in it's own right, but I am glad I had the > experience. By some extrapolation, I can imagine how such experiences could > be in some way addictive. It seems unlikely (for several reasons) that the > anesthetic was Ketamine (early 1970s), but significantly dissociative. > I have a stronger sense of Dave's "X-consciousness being aware of > ego-consciousness and it's fading" in variations on lucid dreaming. Of course > my brain activity is not flatlined (I assume) in that mode. I don't have > out-of-body experiences but I do become an extreme "observer" of my own > consciousness... I can't really parse that well... other experiences with > dreaming include what I interpret as a "post-hoc" fabricated "memory". If > something intrusive is happening in the world around my sleeping self, I am > as likely as not to build an elaborate dream-story around the intrusion > (sound, smell, cold, etc) which can feel like it lasts for *hours* when in > fact, the intrusion may have been very short, sometimes all but > instantaneous. The dream-story "builds up to" the event as if with > foreknowledge. I interpret it as "post hoc fabrication". Others report it as > "foreknowledge". > If I had a k-pony, I suppose I would now have to name it "yoda". > - Steve > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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