Nick wrote;
OK, so what if I believe x, and I believe y and I believe that beliefs x+y entail z? Then I believe z, right? … Entailment …"entails" belief [if] I believe in the laws of logic, right? Frank Wrote: Not right. As I said, you may believe or not x, y, and/or z independently whether or not you know logic. In the meantime x and y imply z. Not if I believe logic, right? If not, please say why. To believe something is to act as if it were the case. To believe logically is to behave as if logic were the case. Or is the problem in our understanding of belief. You hold that belief is an inner state that entails nothing whatsoever in your behavior, past or present? Ok, in that case, I see why you said what you said. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:57 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAM Not right. As I said, you may believe or not x, y, and/or z independently whether or not you know logic. In the meantime x and y imply z. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 9:37 AM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: OK, so what if I believe x, and I believe y and I believe that beliefs x+y entail z? Then I believe z, right? But do we want to say that I believe z BECAUSE I believed x and y? Entailment never "entails" belief unless I believe in the laws of logic, right? For some reason I want to reserve "cause" for the situation which believing y and believing that x+y entails z, I came to believe z because I came to believe x. I am plainly out of my depth, here. I mean, even more than usual. We need a logician, or 4 years at St. Johns, or both. I think that a logician consultant would say -- wearily -- that Nick wants to limit the word cause to "efficient" causes, that experimental psychologists tend to do that, etc. So then the question becomes, is the causality asserted when I say that the snifter broke because I left it on the table when I went to bed AND the cat knocked it off the table while eating the dip from last night's party the same causality as I might assert if I said that the snifter broke BECAUSE it was brittle. And is the causality that we assert when we assert sidewise causality -- a sequence of events -- in any way related to the causality that we assert when we assert upward or downward causality. Glen has offered, and EricS has endorsed, a work-around for all this mess which I have yet to understand. Really, I shouldn't speak to this issue any more before I have another go at their messages, which I attach. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Jon Zingale Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 6:07 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] better simulating actual FriAM What about something being believably prior rather than just temporally prior? Perhaps, we would use a different word than cause? -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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