For what it's worth, Frank, it's hard for me to even imagine you being abusive to anyone, let alone a friend like Nick.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:45 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > This is not about lumbago but may not be of general interest. Please read > a little and then stop if it is not a topic that you care about. > > I feel like writing a little about the history of my friendship with Nick > in response to the accusation that I was abusive to him. During the first > year of my studies in the PhD program in psychology at Carnegie Mellon I > took a course in cognitive processes. One of the themes of that course was > the failure of behaviorism. That approach was described to us as an early > 20th century effort to explain all behavior in terms of learning and that > the result was a realization that that was not possible. After a year I > became frustrated with the uncertainties and ambiguitied of psychology and > I left that program and went into a PhD program in math and computer > science. > > > When I met Nick he told me he was a radical behaviorist I asked him what > he meant by that. And my recollection is that he said that he thought that > people don't have minds or consciousness and that they infer their feelings > and beliefs from their behavior. I found this to be anathema because to me > my consciousness is the first thing I know and the only thing I know with > certainty. Nick said aha you're a Cartesian in a way that implied that he > could dismiss my ideas on topic of consciousness for example. After > extensive arguments my interpretation is that we gave up on the topic. > > We played many games of chess got together with our wives and friends and > generally had an enjoyable friendship. We cooperated on the Santa Fe > Complex project and we both attended friam reliably and for many years. I > attended a seminar that he organized in which we focused on the book > Feelings by James Laird, a colleague of Nick's at Clark University. That > book argues that we know our feelings by observing our own behavior a > position that I found odd but I read the book. I usually gave Nick a ride > to St John's every Friday morning which gave us an opportunity to visit > privately before joining the meeting. > > Before the alleged abuse Nick had told me that he had a negative covid > test and was waiting the results of the more rigorous test. He then > mentioned Bonnet's Syndrome and I wondered how a person who doesn't believe > in mind explains hallucinations so I asked him. I knew he had been feeling > badly but he did not say that he was suffering from Covid-19 nor from > Bonnet's Syndrome. Maybe the latter was implicit in his raising the > topic. If so, I apologize again. > > Nick my remember some of the events I describe differently. > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:20 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Colleaugues, >> >> >> >> There are many of us long in the tooth on this list, and I think we >> should adopt some best practices lest the intellectual life of the list >> become drowned in laments about lumbago. In retrospect, I wish I had >> informed one of you privately, asked that person to briefly inform the >> attendees when I went missing at vFriam, and to be a point person to any >> who would persue the matter further. >> >> >> >> I tried, unsuccessfully, to bridge to the less personal topic to >> Bonnett's Syndrome, which as Frank knew well, presented some problems to me >> philosophically. Some of you -- perhaps many -- are familiar with >> psychodelic experiences and all of you presumably with dreaming. The >> enormous inventiveness and creativity of these experiences, their complex >> structures, and blooming buzzing confusions, their wildly improbable >> transitions, are a challenge to any poor monist. Where the hell does the >> information come from? >> >> >> >> It seems to me that my experience is but a flea on the behemoth of my >> brain. I am not inclined to go digging in there, but I can see why some of >> you are. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 10:20 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery >> >> >> >> Nicely circular! You don't have to know/believe the meaning of your >> words, for those words to have meaning. I'm particularly fond of how >> abusers will say something abhorrent, then act all surprised when victims >> take offense. The abuser often takes the stance that they were simply >> joking and the snowflake should grow a thicker skin. I'm as guilty as the >> rest. >> >> >> >> On 12/8/20 8:15 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >> > I was kidding, of course.. believing the topic to be devoid of meaning, >> and so more absurd than abusive. >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:09 AM >> >> > To: [email protected] >> >> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery >> >> > >> >> > It's important, even/especially for long-term partners, to reflect on >> possibly abusive habits. Even if the abused and the abuser *agree* that the >> habit isn't intentional abuse, an outsider will often *rightly* identify >> the habit as abusive. >> >> > >> >> > On 12/7/20 6:23 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: >> >> >> If you agree that was mean please accept my sincere apologies. I am >> hoping that you didn't find it so. Marcus hasn't been privy to the >> hundreds of frank, sometimes humorous, in-person exchanges between us over >> the last 15+ years and I meant it in that spirit. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ >> >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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