My late colleague Harold Morowitz once made a comment in an afternoon working conversation, which I found funny and fun. He said something like “I remember only 45 years ago when the lagomorphs split off from the rodents”.
Kind of like Paul Erdos, the 4 billion year old man. Eric > On Dec 27, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Gary Schiltz <[email protected]> wrote: > > When I studied biology at university back in the 1970s, my recollection is > that most biologists in those days thought of species as an interbreeding > population of individuals. Over the years, I've seen this definition give way > more and more to defining species by genetic differences alone. Though I > haven't been professionally a biologist for over 40 years (if ever), my life > as a birdwatcher (and occasional keeper of coveted lists of species seen) has > been affected by this shift. Based on genetic analysis (possibly tempered by > studies of behavior, range, morphology), bird species are frequently "split" > into two or more separate groups, either "subspecies", "races", or even full > blown "species" (yay!! I've seen both those, add another species to my life > list). Or the converse is also true - based on genetic analysis (tempered as > above), ornithological consensus will deem two or more species to be merely > different races or subspecies of one species, which we refer to as "lumping" > (boo!!! lost some bragging rights about my life list). > > I asked an ornithologist friend about this a couple of years ago. I've always > been a "lumper" at heart, even if it does result in my life list being > shorter. To me, if two individuals decide to mate, and produce offspring, > they ought to be considered the same species. Maybe adding the requirement > that the offspring are themselves fertile and able to produce fertile > offspring. My ornithologist friend seems pretty firmly in the camp that > defines species by their genetics. I asked him if this wasn't rather > arbitrary, and the only thing I remember him mentioning (which I never > followed up on studying) was the notion of a "clade". I won't comment further > on that, since I know absolutely nothing about clades. > > As a side note, we certainly don't classify currently living Homo sapiens > individuals into different species, but then I don't know if the genetic > differences among different races of people are more, or less, significant > than that of some other animal species. This would, of course, be hugely (and > justifiably, I believe) unpopular among us humans. I asked my parrots what > they think, and they just chewed on the furniture more. I don't know if that > signifies agreement or disagreement with my ornithologist friend. > > On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 11:54 AM <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/25/discovery-of-cryptic-species-shows-earth-is-even-more-biologically-diverse-aoe > > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.com%2fenvironment%2f2020%2fdec%2f25%2fdiscovery-of-cryptic-species-shows-earth-is-even-more-biologically-diverse-aoe&c=E,1,d8ssUiHUP3tLETjJmf50cEcV2upLKBND2qQAnwF__EwkcPtRZ4gDe8VeZoMCaUPYDxPsgQn0SuGFhkQvCAdrBxfgzxgbKmjGgeVhwULSGv75Zs7h4RD5BgK8B7U,&typo=1> > So what IS a species? A level of distinctness of design, a degree of genetic > differentiation, or an interbreeding population? And what happens to > Darwinism when these things turn out to be not particularly well correlated, > in the way that the signs and symptoms of hunger turned out to be not so well > correlated as the Cartesian model would require? Steve Guerin: if you want > to demolish Darwinism, here is where you start. > > Nick > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,foGr69X29NwVBuhs5_OYQsbJMROEpdBEUDaYJD1iY8L2FLC2CV4ss33T0HL7EUm_QBBNKm3Lx2dp7GjtkILLrvvsBdt7_3M3zwUnWvS4_jC-Ll6X-uo,&typo=1> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,fIgA-f_L-FPHCVSbwL_DIGYAiH3XWc41guN_B0ayBDafV2MTyIO_tWpra4FLXDFX4xAqAyUcyc7pYm6Hw6vK0x_JkrIA7CgSiLRu2qWznPU,&typo=1> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,Dqlg85Dlbuh8fbdXUEq7uvapBNdOg8XOpZzaapnWLbLn2rRUWnzaTwvIkcLtX3s3LKD4I_M1k4B6yN24IPubDI5mFl6poR6n1wpp0m1O&typo=1> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,y_Hvb_aasSNzzcMDqntU2KFzJv3N3lbHwjuRS0OptrCSlKUFotBrXNXU20_UjsE7JPfODuGECNKv3NgxJJQOY6mDsU4y_X02_PEO9Lrvg-vgqmOqtrc,&typo=1 > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,rt2S6zpgWOLuXwtQXbSXIEwoHSy-RBi8nR31x0zs29bhQROtIQJsvnX2OCxdVDn5UDf6w52Z_vc3Cg5iKj0RZAzSDNKtmMrXM0u8WW-3yfCMcN_rLnU,&typo=1 >
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