Well, “elaboration of an epiphenomenon” was not the core of the mechanism I described. It was a fancy little idea I added at the end. So what about the mechanism that I described was difficulty to undertad.
n Nick Thompson <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2021 8:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spandrel Nick, first apologies for arrogance in first reply. I should have said that I find the definition derived from Bonner to be more understandable — to me — and, I think, it offers an actual mechanism / rationale that is absent, again to me, than "elaboration of epiphenomenon." I am enjoying the essay and i see an interesting connection with Wegner's Arrival of the Fittest book. That means Jenny Q will have to read it because and I are working on a paper in that area. davew On Sat, Mar 13, 2021, at 5:37 PM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > Bonner's a great guy, but I think he's wrong on that, or you're wrong > in interpreting him. The whole thrust of Lewontin and Gould's work is > that there are developmental constraints in evolution. Even according > to orthodox Darwinian theory, mutation is random, but only with respect > to the opportunities a mutation affords. Nothing says that a mutation > can' be predictable, yet random in this sense. Any "random" assertion > requires a point of view from which the stated variable is random. Any > geneticist can tell you which mutations are more likely than others. > > Nick > > Nick Thompson > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2021 6:04 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spandrel > > Nick, thank you. I get the metaphor but I think my “definition” is more > correct than ‘elaboration of epiphenom’. I get that notion from an > essay I am reading on randomness in evolution by John Tyler Bonner > > Davew > > On Sat, Mar 13, 2021, at 2:08 PM, [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > Ok, since you are also a metaphor enthusiast, let me explain a > > spandrel in terms of its root metaphor. A spandrel, originally, is a > > decoration on the curved triangular spaces formed by the intersection > > of two perpendicularly intersecting archways. The decorations are so > > suited to their settings that one might imagine that the hallways were > > designed to accommodate them, but, of course, it is they that are > > suited to fit the spaces affording by the intersecting hallways. The > > same confusion exists with the human nose. The nose is presumably > > what was left over when the brain expanded, and the gut and the jaw > > shrank. It has been elaborated since to accommodate its new position, > > but the nose it self is the result of other adaptations, not of an > > adaptation FOR a nose. The most graphic example, of course, of a > > spandrel is the erectal and colored pseudopenis (hypertrophied > > clitoris) born by the female stripped Hyena. It is not an adaptation > > itself, but a consequence of powerful selection between female > > genealogies for feeding competition at the kill, which has select for > > high levels of testosterone in females. (The females are heavier than > > the males, and, in general more nasty in every way > > -- definitely examples of testosterone poisoning.) The coloration of > > the pseudopenis is the spandrel-part, because selection has > > subsequently led to its "decoration". Put another way, a spandrel is > > a phenomenon which is an elaboration of an epiphenomenon. > > > > Does that help at all? > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > On Behalf Of Prof David West > > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2021 2:43 PM > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: [FRIAM] Spandrel > > > > A while back there was a lot of discussion of spandrels that I failed > > to grasp. > > > > Is a spandrel a stable morphological trait that results from random > > chance rather than natural selection? > > > > Or am I still ignorant. > > > > Davew > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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