I agree you can't prove we don't have free will. It's like proving the flying spaghetti monster false.
On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 17:06, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > You had to learn how to generate alpha waves. And the information > processing associated my lucid dreams are just a function of previous > events, which themselves were unavoidable. A million of these examples > won’t explain why mind stuff is fundamentally different from other physical > stuff. > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Prof David West > *Sent:* Friday, April 2, 2021 6:53 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Free Will in the Atlantic > > > > Pieter quoted: *"the brain is a physical system like any other, and we > have no more will to operate it in a particular way than we will our heart > to beat".* > > > > *But we do have the ability, and can "will" our heart to beat in a > particular way.* > > > > Not only that, we (at least some individuals in the world) can control > pretty much every aspect of our "autonomous nervous system." I learned how > to generate alpha waves in my brain while awake and talking. Researchers > recently conducted cogent conversations with individuals in the middle of > lucid dreams. Then there is all the "bio-feedback" data and practices. > Hundreds of similar examples could be cited. > > > > Just because we don't, as a general rule, does not mean we cannot. > > > > Not saying anything in this post is an argument for free will — just that > the quoted argument against free will is fatally flawed. > > > > davewest > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote: > > From a strict scientific perspective I accept that we don't have free > will. I don't argue that we have free will. I accept, and I quote from the > article quoted above: > > "the brain is a physical system like any other, and we have no more will > to operate it in a particular way than we will our heart to beat". But... > > > > From how humans perceive our own actions, I assert that we do have free > will of "some sorts''. Similar to some computer programs that also have > free will of "some sorts". We all agree that AlphGo who beat Lee Sedol in > Go does not have free will, it did exactly what the computer code > instructed it to do, but it came up with creative play that the human > programmers did not even know about. This is in my view also "some sorts" > of free will. > > > > On Fri, 2 Apr 2021 at 14:15, Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> wrote: > > Was it only 150 years ago when Charles Darwin first published 'On the > Origin of Species' ? It feels longer. Interesting story from Stephen Cave > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/ > > > > -J. > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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