On 4/21/21 10:51 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > That's an excellent point that plays well to Pieter's mention of allowing > poor people to access desalinated water, Dave's mention of the myth of the > objective, and our discussion of free will. These > trajectories-willfull-paths-attractors-whatever need *some* organizing > "centroid" or something for them to maintain/persist. That's even if such > purity of intention is illusory in some psychological sense, that "centroid", > "objective", "targeted state", or whatever it is can be pointed to and > studied. And these collective "aspiroids" are emergent, co-evolve with personal interests... the stuff of Swarms, no? A swarm of locusts is not a giant locust, but it can be said to be "ravenous"? > > On 4/21/21 9:10 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote: >> I went back to reading Ted Chiang at this point: >> >> >> And that is an example, I think, of this general idea that the >> intentions or the spiritual nature of the practitioner was an essential >> element in chemical reactions, that you needed to be pure of heart or you >> needed to concentrate really hard in order for the reaction to work. And it >> turns out that is not true. Chemical reactions work completely independently >> of what the practitioner wants or feels or whether they are virtuous or >> malign. >> >> >> Immediately after reading this breaking alert from The Washington Post: >> >> >> >> >> Baltimore plant with contaminated Johnson & Johnson vaccines had >> multiple failures, unsanitary conditions, FDA report says >> <https://s2.washingtonpost.com/31f97bf/608035ece6e81b42e4fd8e45/5972cf2a9bbc0f1cdceb5a63/3/13/608035ece6e81b42e4fd8e45> >> >> Vaccine production at the Emergent BioSolutions plant was shut down >> earlier this week after 15 million doses of raw Johnson & Johnson >> coronavirus vaccine were contaminated by ingredients from AstraZeneca’s >> vaccine. >> >> >> >> The chemistry only works if the chemists expend the necessary effort to >> making it so. When they fail, they generally poison people, destroy the >> factory, and, in this case, I think they're taking the company down with >> them. >> >> Chiang's point is entirely theoretical, in practice purity of intention is >> absolutely essential. >> >> -- rec -- >> >> >> -- rec -- >> >> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 11:16 AM Roger Critchlow <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> There was a book review in Science last week, sort of the book that >> Google wasn't going to let Timnit Gebru write on their nickel. >> >> >> AI empires >> >> 1. [reviewed by] Michael Spezio >> >> Atlas of AI: Power, Politics, and the Planetary Costs of Artificial >> Intelligence /Kate Crawford/ Yale University Press, 2021. 336 pp. >> >> Kate Crawford's new book, /Atlas of AI/, is a sweeping view of >> artificial intelligence (AI) that frames the technology as a collection of >> empires, decisions, and actions that together are fast eliminating >> possibilities of sustainable futures on a global scale. Crawford, a senior >> principal researcher at Microsoft's FATE (Fairness, Accountability, >> Transparency, and Ethics in AI) group, conceives of AI as a one-word >> encapsulation of imperial design, akin to Calder Willingham's invocation of >> the word “plastics” in his 1967 screenplay for /The Graduate/ (/1/ >> <https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6539/246#ref-1>). AI, machine >> learning, and other concepts are here understood as efforts, practices, and >> embodied material manipulations of the levers of global power. >> >> >> -- rec -- >> >> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:40 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Well, Chiang was, I think, arguing that there's a reductionism >> lurking in the asymmetric *use* of technology. Exploitation of resources by >> capitalists is just one form it can take. Reducing progressive ephemerides >> to the influence of superheroes or conspiracy theories is another one. >> Roko's Basilisk is yet another one. >> >> To gloss all that into an equivalence class of arbitrarily swappable >> buzzwords or over-specific irony about the misunderstanding of socialism is >> a mistake. Eschatological thinking might not rise to being a first order >> trait ... a crisp category of people. But it's a persistent and prominent >> pattern. >> >> I really enjoy optimistic narratives like Pieter's. But I can also >> appreciate tragic narratives like Merle's. Eric's (and Chiang's) broach of >> the emergence of detailed and echatologically ambiguous story-telling out of >> the simpler types hits the right vein of ore. We're seeing more of these >> ambiguous stories lately ... in spite of the render-farm nonsense Jon >> laments. >> >> On 4/20/21 12:54 PM, David Eric Smith wrote: >> > Yeah. I’m not sure what they’re afraid of, or even that they >> could articulate it. (And I guess I mean this as a royal “they”. Not some >> others, but a Weltanschauung that we can see rising, in which we are >> immersed) You are certainly right that the words are just buzzwords, >> exchangeable at the drop of a hat. >> > >> > There is an expression “a full world” that I took up from its use >> by Herman Daly in papers like “Economics in a full world”, which argues that >> the problems that need solving are different when everything is occupied, >> than they were when everything was (for people) a frontier with no effective >> pushback against their expansion into it. People’s anxiety and bad behavior >> is somehow reflective of an awareness that the world is full, and there >> might not be any room in it for them. >> > >> > >> >> On Apr 21, 2021, at 12:23 AM, Marcus Daniels >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >> >> The hypothesis that the latent fear is of capitalism is amusing >> since the anti-vaxxers who are afraid of Bill Gates doing whatever he is >> intent on doing to them (what is it?) seem to be the same ones so terrified >> of socialism. >> >> >> >> Btw, someone finally approved by Clubhouse subscription, and so I >> turned it on. Let's just say the "compelling app" is not full of >> compelling people. It is one thing to know that these anti-vaxxer people >> exist, it is another thing to realize they have a place to talk, and do so. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith >> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 10:23 PM >> >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) >> >> >> >> This was a nice read, Glen, thank you. >> >> >> >>> On Apr 20, 2021, at 12:11 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I should have linked this: >> >>> >> >>> >> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/podcasts/ezra-klein-podcast-ted-chi >> <https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/podcasts/ezra-klein-podcast-ted-chi> >> >>> ang-transcript.html >> >>> >> >> >> >> Several of Chiang’s observations have a ring of insight to me. >> >> >> >> On just one, for the accident that it overlaps with another >> factoid. His comment that superheroes: >> >> 1. Are magic == special >> >> 2. Preserve the status quo >> >> >> >> I think it was in Jane Smiley’s introduction to the volume of the >> Icelandic Sagas that she edited and compiled, that she says the Sagas are >> considered a premonition of the modern novel far ahead of its normal place >> in literature (the Quixote is I think usually credited as the first) because >> (for the Sagas), they realized that the old heroic tales of gods and trolls >> (e.g. the Eddas), didn’t have the depth to remain interesting under the >> retelling. The Sagas brought the focus “down” to the real troubles and >> accommodations and inventions of real people, which were richer, more >> complex, and more satisfying over time than the old tropes. I have come >> back to her comment many times, in thinking about what is the cultural role, >> whether of Eddas, epics like Ramayana and Mahabharata in India, Gilgamesh, >> etc. I think for all of these, Chiang’s characterization works in both its >> dimensions, though perhaps in different degrees for different cases. >> >> >> >> So the political right in the US turn to an encompassing paranoia >> +/= cynicism and Qanon, and the movie industry (whoever that serves) is >> dominated by Marvel Comics franchises. Having had the modern novel, we are >> throwing it away for not even epics, but dumb cartoons of epics, but keeping >> the magic and preservation of the status quo. After all, the real heroics >> have supernatural up-enders as well as restorers (Loki or Enkidu), and in >> the more advanced versions (the Eddas) the trickster is not dominated or >> overcome, but a persistent force. (c.f. also the Kosare in Tewa and Keres, >> and the mudheads in Hopi, in NM). >> >> >> >> There was another observation of a similar kind I recall, from >> perhaps two sources. >> >> >> >> Some historian came through SFI (for weeks or so), and gave a >> talk commenting on the iconography of scientists following the second world >> war. The public wanted old-age Darwin, tired, patriarchal, apparently >> gentle (one never saw the picture of the young man starting out to find his >> way in the world, and the imperious, contemptuous Newton image was long >> gone), and old-age Einstein, again the tired benevolent grandfather. From >> some other source, years earlier (I think coming from agriculture), there >> was the comment that sterility in the US came in the 1950s from the >> front-and-center nuclear terror. Television was Ward Cleaver and Andy >> Griffith. In the Cleaver home Ward wore a tie sitting in the living room >> chair in the evening. In Mayberry there was nobody non-white to consider >> the circumstances of, and nothing seriously bad ever happened. That was >> also when food in the grocery all went under plastic, and the ability to >> smell food walking into a store >> disappeared. >> >> >> >> So I guess we already know people admit they are scared, because >> that is commented on everywhere, but the reworking of their lives betrays a >> much more inclusive fear even than what they state. >> >> >> >> >> >> I did wonder, too, in reading the Klein transcript, whether >> Chiang’s brief characterization of the alchemists would be more congenial to >> DaveW’s use of the word, since he always makes it a point to reject the >> common reference as a misunderstanding. >> >> >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> "It’s capitalism that wants to reduce costs and reduce costs by >> laying people off. It’s not that like all technology suddenly becomes benign >> in this world. But it’s like, in a world where we have really strong social >> safety nets, then you could maybe actually evaluate sort of the pros and >> cons of technology as a technology, as opposed to seeing it through how >> capitalism is going to use it against us. How are giant corporations going >> to use this to increase their profits at our expense?" >> >>> >> >>> On 4/19/21 8:01 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >> >>>> Ha! Sure. ... it still looks like SteveS called it with the Red >> Queen's Race. Even if such tech solves more problems than it creates, it'll >> still be distributed according to the power structures in place (e.g. rich >> people) when the tech's ready to scale. >> >>>> >> >>>> On 4/19/21 7:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >>>>> Again technology to the rescue... Nanotechnology for >> desalinization. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:45 AM >> >>>>> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >>>>> Subject: [FRIAM] water, again (was murder offsets) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Copper? Natural gas? Pffft! Water's the interesting one. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftheconversation >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2ftheconversation>. >> >>>>> >> com%2finterstate-water-wars-are-heating-up-along-with-the-climate-15 >> >>>>> >> 9092&c=E,1,Ewpqbk1K7YvvWaN9Wq82biEau11JE47_9tv9w77esjTa5t6HYRzAKlQ2w >> >>>>> >> -qi_xGNkEoqhkVKJuvI9hoKZ1q58ZXHgk_APFIJbNOqB5FmfTBe3-Djst8,&typo=1 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> And another one: >> >>>>> >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theolympian >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theolympian>. >> >>>>> >> com%2fnews%2fbusiness%2farticle250595449.html&c=E,1,NvMnnmssGuhqpYLB >> >>>>> >> wvA3sYGLQlpI4LtssXofxpMUZv79UtcRK8Tqe9uBjxn8-AxuqoH2Ah-11_RcM_IlTW-T >> >>>>> GgAXXpjbp6RfGPzrix6us3-O6w6BrA,,&typo=1 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 4/15/21 7:59 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: >> >>>>>> Another good example is water rights across states given >> >>>>>> watersheds, flood irrigation, etc. >> >>>>>> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardia >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardia> >> >>>>>> n.com >> <http://n.com>%2fus-news%2f2021%2fapr%2f05%2farizona-water-one-per&c=E,1,CH_ >> >>>>>> >> fKbSUirJq0d8JFH7BJbRnp3VoLW_l2ZsofeB8tXplQqNrJKiPCkdY2T3Ze0zf1SFcRC >> >>>>>> sXjtq_OHxVwg0cuwInTDLJULErLjTj6DMWH-ln0w,,&typo=1 >> >>>>>> centers> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> So, the question you're asking (how might "storage" in BTC be >> less preferable to other assets?) isn't really answerable *without* first >> discussing what that reservoir is *for*, what end does it serve?
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