Following up on Frank's remark, there are these HUGE electronic health & biobank efforts (UK, VA, Kaiser, Explorys), that give testable hypothesis through population-based statistical inference. They give no insight as to why certain relations exist, but I don't think it is fair to expect there be a "model of the mental order" in order to identify deviations from normalness that are undesired, and then use evidence-based methods to suggest drugs to test. It is just that until recently it couldn't be done at scale. Some of the testing might identify side-effects or long term health risks. That doesn't mean the effort is bullshit. -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 4:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Natures_Queer_Performativity_the_authori.pdf
To make that claim, you'd have to walk through all the medicine that's happening, analgesics, physical therapy, acupuncture, dentistry, etc.. Walking through the psychiatry that's happening is a much smaller task. I agree there does seem to be a lot of it, though ... I just have no idea if it's *most*. As long as I'm logging opinions, I'd answer Jon's question about psycho*dynamics* with the idea I think I got from Thomas Saaz, that it's fundamentally about creating a therapist-patient relationship ... dovetailing 2 types of raw persuasion/manipulation in order to achieve the ends of the therapist or patient (or both). My guess is the tone of that coercion depends deeply on the 2 parties. Some authoritarian therapists may rely on daddy-mommy-child constructs. Others may be more egalitarian, pushing the ethical boundaries on friendship with one's patients. Etc. Lots of people who lack intimate relationships might come to a better place through such intentional relationship forming. But it needn't be through psychodynamics. I know a few people who've done it with their fitness coach, or life coach. One guy I knew back in Texas regularly visited a round-robin of prostitutes. I joke with my bartenders that I pay them to be my friends ... Good jokes must have some truth in them. On 4/29/21 3:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > By that definition most of medicine is bullshit. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Natures_Queer_Performativity_the_authori.pdf > > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/306068036_Psychiatry_as_Bulls > hit > > On 4/29/21 3:21 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: >> Jon, >> >> I am sorry I disappointed you. My understanding of object relations theory >> is like swiss cheese and I chose not to provide an inadequate response by >> humming a few bars. By the way, object-relations theory provides a >> non-Oedipal alternative to your interpretation as explained by the Wikipedia >> article. I became the withholding bad object to you. I hope you will be >> able to integrate that with the good object I have been at times. >> >> Good for Glen. >> >> I am not a practitioner of psychoanalytic theory but it may not be for you. >> As for psychoanalytic /treatment, /see the last paragraph of the Wikipedia >> article. >> >> Warmly, >> >> Frank >> >> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 4:09 PM jon zingale <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Frank, >> >> To some extent, your response is indicative of the psychoanalytic >> ends I criticize, the mommy-daddy-me Oedipal construction. Rather than >> pick up on the opportunity presented by the conversation to engage in an >> act of creativity (contributing to a forum), you use your agency to make >> an authoritative (daddy) appeal to an object away from yourself and your >> agency (the Wikipedia article). This action strikes me as functionally >> different than Glen's earlier reference, say. While Glen's appeal acts to >> ground and facilitate a living discussion, yours aims to end one. I felt >> that the question I asked was fair, to hum a few bars regarding a >> connection you are making that perhaps could contribute. If this sort of >> short-circuiting of concepts and conversation is what I can expect from >> practitioners of psychoanalytic theory, well, maybe it's not for me. -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
