I apologize. By "DLU" I meant Don't Look Up. I am sensitive about mentioning it after Friday's meeting.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 3:00 PM David Eric Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Neat, thank you Frank, > > If anyone else was wondering what a DLU is, I am guessing Frank is > referring to something like this: > > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33280876/ > > btw, for those who really love TLAs or FLAs, here is a slight edit of some > sentences from the abstract: > > In this study, the SWAT model was used to simulate surface runoff in > the small Sahelian watershed of Tougou, which underwent significant > LULC changes between 1952 and 2017. Based on rainfall/runoff data > acquired from 2004 to 2018, the SWAT model was calibrated under two > scenarios: a SLU using a single LULC map (in 1999) and a DLU > integrating 3 LULC maps (1999, 2009 and 2017). > > Eric > > > On Jan 24, 2022, at 4:48 PM, Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > > I read the Seibert and Rees article. It looks like a DLU scenario could > be a blessing. If course we have no control over that. Who thinks it's > possible to reduce the population of the Earth by almost 90% ? > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022, 2:41 PM David Eric Smith <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Sorry, wikipedia said it. It was Roddenberry’s friend. >> >> On Jan 24, 2022, at 4:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Glen writes: >> >> < That's not true at all. Closed systems do have disclosures in terms of >> the behavior of their boundary. Granted, one may not have constitutive >> understanding of what's happening inside the membrane. But one can profile >> the behavior of the surface. And if that behavior changes over time, then >> it's capable of corruption.> >> >> My point is that if one has enough resources, it simply doesn't matter >> whether the constitutive understanding of what is happening inside the >> membrane is achieved by outsiders, nor does it matter how outsiders >> evaluate the changes on the surface. The closed system simply does not >> concern itself with such evaluations as they are of no consequence. It >> can jump between sets of principles for any number of reasons, including >> amusement. I am of course thinking of Q! (Musk is not quite there.) >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek) >> >> Marcus >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen < >> [email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 2:13 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics >> >> That's not true at all. Closed systems do have disclosures in terms of >> the behavior of their boundary. Granted, one may not have constitutive >> understanding of what's happening inside the membrane. But one can profile >> the behavior of the surface. And if that behavior changes over time, then >> it's capable of corruption. >> >> On 1/24/22 13:07, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> > Closed systems don't have disclosures, so there's can't be this social >> notion of corruption. I changed my mind today: I'll put new quarters into >> the machine and see what happens. >> > >> > Marcus >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen < >> [email protected]> >> > *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 1:26 PM >> > *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> >> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics >> > Well, yeah, I see little evidence of such principle-free attractors too >> ... because I'm conditioned to think all actors have prior principles and, >> when they achieve power, they slide into corruption. I.e. I see no evidence >> that there are no such thing as unprincipled actors. And that means, as an >> actor drifts from one set of principles to another, that is corruption. The >> only way out of that is to be vague about your principles (plausible >> deniability) or make your principles *generic* enough to apply to multiple, >> parallaxed, methods/behaviors ... or both. >> > >> > Arguments that rely on generlized principles are everywhere, from >> biology (survival, food, gene transfer, etc.) to psychology to politics. >> Even if many of those turn out to actually be vagaries instead of >> generalizations, those are the arguments ... and in the context of those >> arguments, power corrupts. >> > >> > One of the advantages the Bayesians and postmodernists have is they >> admit up front that their ephemerides will change. And as long as they're >> fairly clear about how they'll *try* to update their systems in a >> transparent way, then it's difficult to accuse them of corruption. Hence, >> secrecy and closed systems are more readily corruptible than open ones. >> > >> > On 1/24/22 11:56, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >> If what you mean is that there are consequences to indifference to the >> environment and to each other, I don't see a lot of evidence of such >> attractors. If there are no principles and we are merely beings that >> notice attractors and naming them, there's not much point in ideology, >> religion, and so on. Perhaps they were always delusions, and it was only >> the Musk's, etc. that have found, through their wealth, the autonomy to >> come to grips with that. Counterexamples like Putin come to mind, where >> it does seem to be a reinforcement issue. >> >> >> >> Marcus >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen < >> [email protected]> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 12:41 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics >> >> Scaled need for entropy: It's not clear to me why we'd believe smaller >> orgs need less entropy. I agree they have smaller *stores* of "energy". >> And, to some extent, I can see that some ways entropy manifests could >> dissipate those stores more than they accumulate them. (Regarding meeting >> objectives as one kind of store ... e.g. using money to achieve some >> objective is a - perhaps inefficient - transfer from one store to another >> -- since Tom posted about SysDyn.) But I could easily argue that small orgs >> need *more* entropy than large orgs. >> >> >> >> Semantics of Corruption: Well, I agree that one can't be corrupt if >> one has no principles from the start. This is, I think, a fundamental part >> of the arguments in favor of open-ended evolution (and extending into >> metaphysics like parallel worlds). But even if we gave up on the idea that >> there's an, in principle, set of values to start with, we can still arrive >> at an attractor so strong that the system will never leave it. The argument >> against Growth and the need for a "paradigm shift" is exactly such an >> argument. We're so brainwashed by that paradigm, even those of us who see >> the engine's headlight at the end of the tunnel can't think any >> differently. So ... how could I say it so you agree with it? Power is >> self-reinforcing even when it becomes obsolete? >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1/24/22 11:30, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >>> Employees in a large organization are in one sense cells, but in >> another sense parasites. (The largest parasite being the CEO.) >> Nevertheless, the organization needs the diversity of these agents -- >> whatever one calls them -- to innovate and survive. Without the entropy, >> the organization is just a machine, and the people can be replaced with >> simple robots. It is small organizations, where there is less ability to >> take on debt and tolerate waste, where shared values can help keep focus in >> a situation of limited resources. >> >>> >> >>> I don't really buy your claim that power corrupts. One could just >> as well say that being weak makes one rationalize their weakness. If >> there isn't a shared value system, there is no reason to say that it has >> been corrupted. Perhaps rather that once entropy is eliminated, then >> death will soon follow. Entropy could still be high and inter-group >> violence common. >> >>> >> >>> Marcus >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen < >> [email protected]> >> >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 12:00 PM >> >>> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> >> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] health care logistics >> >>> At first, I struggled to see how this mapped to health care >> logistics. But on 2nd read, it clearly does. >> >>> >> >>> The question that now dominates is a) shared values - even if it's >> overshoot and we know it's overshoot, do the exploiters (and their >> rhetorical victims) care at all about the same things the ... "earthists" >> or "humanists" or "biodiversisists" might care about? And b) nonlinear >> exploitation power - orthogonal to shared values, is it possible the >> space/landscape has changed so radically that the tiny produce we now >> exploit might have a huge impact going forward? (Or, maybe vice versa, >> every Joule we squeeze out now has a much smaller impact than the Joules we >> extracted in the '60s?) >> >>> >> >>> Those questions translate to health care in the form of motivation >> comparison between, e.g., pharma employees. Some are in it for the science. >> Some are in it for the money. Some are humanitarians. Etc. Do the >> executives share the values of their employees? A little? A lot? The same >> with insurance undewriters, financialists at hospitals and offices, etc. >> >>> >> >>> Technically, it's completely reasonable to NOT implement >> bootstrappable systems, systems "written in" themselves. We've talked a lot >> on this list about self-reference and if/where we use the words "tautology" >> or "degeneracy". Even if we assume the shared value that earth is just the >> initial *seed* for life and that seed will be a dried up husk when we >> diaspora into the galaxy, *when* will we have to solve the sustainability >> question? Perhaps we should solve it for our 2nd planet? Or maybe we >> iterate slowly from our current non-bootstrapping algorithm of "growth" >> toward an algorithm of sustainable? >> >>> >> >>> The same argument goes for the Big Software argument proffered By Dr. >> Coon. Sure open source packages developed by some kid in Iowa shouldn't >> found the entire Java-based infrastructure. But, similarly, not every piece >> of crypto or opsec needs to come from Israel or the NSA. Can we move >> between and within Big Software and hacking? Can we move between Growth and >> Sustainability? >> >>> >> >>> And more importantly, should we all agree on values, like some >> fascist state? Or is there room for reasonable disagreement or meandering >> non-equilibria? >> >>> >> >>> On 1/21/22 13:00, David Eric Smith wrote: >> >>>> Some of the condensations in this thread, as causal interpretations >> of social dynamics, are real gems. They are much more interesting as >> claims than the endlessly recycled platitudes that seem to be all I am >> seeing in punditry. >> >>>> >> >>>> I have wondered about sending the following to the list, but this is >> probably a good thread in which to do it: >> >>>> https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,brEn7VKkm2bAeteufr44p-mu9QIrgjmeVD3Mm5Gt1VGoZKl5ZUSsECfDv6iF2_IEUiifx2-KlNwNXrxq_LHO0BGYiq23Q0B7cwpwmzKbyrYprfkhN-wORcY,&typo=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,5oUnhQA_b8VwMjJmMDyizwdh0dy2aTQG1Uuro5WnR0rscoqv3id-eximvVqh8S_EMRXpLGQ1H7qKVApyeNg2tz5pnXrB-orC3IAXVwnqvwBMbA,,&typo=1>> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,z3fv0okh0Bx1vL_4q8nY26g8oNiltAe9h-WTzx6T35I11z3H_mv5Vr2znpKvSrL_dOFuT7_N88hadgtfJ-ERUHgQqQe-FE_m71MgtF9311S5Q3hd9V4M1RYgOnv6&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,vGEgiPESFPO54n9VqCmCqCSrTg1WwbMpTuxsM3RTf2I5lXxybmJTEoK1KkBPXNMI42H4sThnAtiZ5sZAd3d9t-qM2HOdkfVGllmAmfiI&typo=1>>> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,fxaRYhdjUSBDhxaIRTz9raIYildn4d13UKrj5fXK4r3pIIzhJW-dSeOweR7bPzybAD9_suUvApx9vTSFrrvGI8WO4mWe7TaW3e480b0fma8JDVKC-Bm2&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,WkEBmHnqxzRI-y-DnvmbDxdF4d6hHHBAzsbvpFcEq5IJD4NvBD2UsaTHdJji108MAaPLlLPiStrugcqQqaOiMWtRPPD06_j86OHIGMgxDGaIvA,,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,TPI7OWo1BSJ_bwS9Glh1mpaxejYJfJmnvuI1-IdxEjI2JxnAdWd07bTUI2xTTrA_zb4ObBr5V5LQEHU1UvRm3_28XOARVJuGhh6sLVQvjw,,&typo=1>>>> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,C7ZtrQEYrDREYieUnjZfXk7h_fqoJVo_XLRZmQyXYUyZDc0kdEBj0zr06ye4i8_yl3UqA9_-CyhgrU8dJLGGrUO2zXkjfIdPbVLlTLzRgotXQlf6_N1iirnYZw,,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,kbE-VsFbc0X0JtCpCWBbSozm7vJyYF01IsFO0OLFuJClsD1e6N9rRJnq2j_d0b194MJa75oFFcb7J-zpwzouX8_ZOqDF4NBmbEBLr5lxKmt7Dl0,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,dX2XLygBzEKSBEmwRpWLYCCNxAbMocoEqT9qbTbVrV7CHhEdlHxy3SEMeb8q_5k7OU7kkhRh2K0-dZ0rMJp0Xos3TKR3shQEJ9jCb-Ek&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> <https://ideas.repec.org/a/gam/jeners/v14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fideas.repec.org%2fa%2fgam%2fjeners%2fv14y2021i15p4508-d601755.html&c=E,1,fyHIg4Tjg8E8y1z3SeBjhUBQ-CSi_TXwdT9EpUHKM2DmWF9WI7lG93IxpbRbWdE7ZBHbOm-aruXZKfU4pzzSACYkAdxNOjvD0eJtROWU_Q,,&typo=1> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> The claims are about important things. They say that the >> sustainability rhetoric is so riddled with pie in the sky that it is not >> clear that an analysis of what we can actually do would even support >> goal-setting along the lines that are currently practiced. For certain >> apps built on the libraries of sustainability, like the rhetoric of Green >> New Deal, the most-central aspiration (not curtailing population and energy >> consumption, and just replacing their sources) may actually be impossible >> in the sense that perpetual motion machines are impossible. The other >> important factor is that we don’t get the dodge “but in the long run”, >> because the claim is that in a relatively short run we are all dead (or at >> least a great many of us, and the rest have greatly reduced options for >> what to do about anything). >> >>>> >> >>>> The important thing about the article (I know the author Rees) is >> that it tries to back up its claims with analysis where possible. Some of >> the citations I consider a bit dodgy, but others are probably sound. That >> does _not_ mean I am claiming the conclusions of the paper are right. I >> haven’t done any shred of the work it would take me to backfill that tree >> of citations and take responsibility for deciding which of them I >> understand to be right. >> >>>> >> >>>> It is also important (to me, for my own reasons) to say that I do >> not mean _any_ blame for hypocrisy or bad faith toward a lot of the serious >> sustainability people, or even the GND advocates. They work partly in a >> realm of human persuasion, and they are trying not to let the perfect >> undermine doing _something_ that might be good, or at least a little >> better. I don’t know how many of the GND rhetoricians even have a detailed >> understanding of our current situation, and among those (if there are >> any), how many would agree that it is as bad as Rees asserts. There might >> be some, who would still do what persuasion they can because they don’t >> have ideas for what might be more helpful. >> >>>> >> >>>> I should also add that there is a lot not covered in this particular >> paper, where I have listened to claims of large unavoidable cascading >> failures. Climate change leading to failure of Himalayan snowpacks that >> are the headwaters of rivers that supply drinking water, sanitation, >> irrigation, and hydropower to something like 1/4 of the world’s population, >> through infrastructure that has been built over a century, and can’t simply >> be moved or replaced. That stops working and people start moving, and then >> all the stresses we already see around migration get amplified to much >> higher levels. etc. Those, too, I have not tried to either evaluate or >> get sources I can trust blindly. But if they are real, they belong in view >> as well. >> >>>> >> >>>> Finally, I want to distance myself a bit from the affect and some >> overall impression in this piece, or by these authors. I have no interest >> in whether something is heterodox or any other kind of dox. The >> misanthropy that comes through in their scornful delivery in places, but >> also their claim that there are “graceful” exits with so little as 1-child >> policies, are to me departures (understandable, but still departures) from >> the thing that makes the article valuable, which is the substance of its >> claims about what exists and what can be assembled into systems. I think >> one can keep the claims as important questions and let the other stuff go >> its own ways. >> >>>> >> >>>> Anyway, more than I know how to chew on, >> >>>> >> >>>> Eric >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:47 AM, glen <[email protected] < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Well, except that this solipsism betrays a profound similarity >> between the cheerful billionaire exploiter and the unfixable deplorables. >> It's almost psychotically self-centered. I can imagine a slow, corrupting >> process where I would if I could, as well. But that transformation would >> have to be complete closure to prevent any light of empathy or sympathy >> from peeking in and popping the boil. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I suppose people like Gates are more interesting than Musk, >> shambling about extruding money according to an opaque template ... less >> transparently ideological than Musk's profiteering. All philanthropy smacks >> of this sort of thing, though, Effective Altruism being the worst of the >> bunch. Power corrupts. It's not a lesson the non-powerful can actually >> learn, though. So it's a good thing to keep around a nicely scaled >> gradation of the super rich and the destitute poor, with some walkability >> up and down the scale. That way we can, as a collective, re-learn the >> lesson that power corrupts on a steady basis. The assumption of equality >> prevents that lesson from being re-learned. The absurdity of philanthropy >> and poverty are "collateral damage" in service of the latent trait, spoken >> as a well-off white man born into a racist patriarchy, anyway. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 1/21/22 08:31, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >>>>>> If anything, Musk is suspicious because he is not overtly >> apocalyptic. Some criticisms of Don’t Look Up were along the lines that >> it fails to try to persuade a change of course in favor of being >> condescending. That was the whole point of the movie: Comic relief >> among the reasonable who must suffer those who are just unfixable. Musk is >> amusing because he is cheerful going about his billionaire life as it all >> comes crashing down. Doing what he can to profit from insane energy policy >> of the last several generations and making what contingency plans he can. >> I certainly would if I could. >> >>>>>>> On Jan 21, 2022, at 7:48 AM, glen <[email protected] < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> < >> mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> This video essay concludes with the same point: >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> The Fake Futurism of Elon Musk >> >>>>>>> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y <https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y> < >> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y <https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y>> < >> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y <https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y < >> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y>>> <https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y < >> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y <https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y < >> https://youtu.be/5OtKEetGy2Y>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Perhaps a better title would have been "Muskian Futurism is >> Eschatological". But there's some deeper stuff there in the middle of the >> video about the appeal of geezers like Sanders to "the youth", perhaps >> dovetailing with our prior discussion of the [opt|pess]imism vs >> hope-despair plane. The mistake the Muskians seem to make is conflating >> Musk's "apocalyptic help the rich survive the end times capitalism" with >> the good old fashioned future orientation of classic science fiction ... >> and, perhaps, even the optimistic glossing of the present by authors like >> Steven Pinker. While Pinker seems to be a hypnotized neoliberal cultist, >> his views still retain some sense of "shared values" in the Enlightenment, >> where something, vague as it is, like equality founds the whole >> perspective. Egalitarian utopias like Star Trek were, it seemed to me, >> standard fare for classic sci-fi. Gibson, Blade Runner, et al turned that >> dark and brought us (perhaps correlated with the rise of Hell and >> >>>>>>> Brimstone Christianity) to Muskianism. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> But this is all just from my nostalgizing as a dying white man. >> It would be interesting to see a disinterested historian present the >> plectic arcs. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On 1/20/22 14:33, glen wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Even if there are multiple paths to nearly equivalent optima, >> each unit (human, hospital, corporation, state) has to share some values >> with the others in order for the the optima to be commensurate. >> >>>>>>> >> >> -- >> glen >> Theorem 3. There exists a double master function. >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 //bit.ly/virtualfriam >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,_XZOZ5wf7r9rTrFVDWHEAJKJwz8zLoqqhsGQJ266ukswEcrMNqbmhP421tiKmWTQWFitKaLKRIWA_jHrWAa4ijPH_nFnYx_ftIqc_XhwsnvGAAY,&typo=1&ancr_add=1> >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,_80vv5D9WMpKGHIC5OcTaD5460fE-GQmr8yVfyuuRxaj7mft6l8UubyQHvWC3208JiQKbPtSkNKMfk_vtV54CiCNdTZWqxceesr4fs36M4UbzajyacWQ&typo=1> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,WswJR-N9bwT6xkGA2vBmG5QbgOkoZht6WVbueQMUWtrfkMt129Ibr3fepqpA1rsJnho7FBYZBs-WJcEMtDl-TIz7faGkmpPt6WcdWqOhOQ,,&typo=1> >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,UEUn3_ilnvjLW2qgH39JGYjMS0j2pl6vdsvYMH3cOYXg6GdbOXM1ydmt6nkpC7oFh3r8lcsyuiSykMMBkTSBRI2XaC8bjwLrB3A64Z7ZRece9wHS7ZjL0uwY&typo=1> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,uX_37TNh5cREqt8MUbh7TD69tvxktp95IRUv_9WINJglXrTahRfs5G-X4F_LBzuwnQv6jF2f3KkUB0fu25-fEQjjKuat8Azpq9VJwYHyEQUWwQ,,&typo=1 >> un/subscribe >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,J2kcwVsbSybAtBW7YivBidmPwaPdXxJtSx9HwueulMe59AixKfP6L6hzjuyD11Yy0hSZ3cYyOZ7h5MBgLWQr0I9umXATAlqBsUR1Ou-tuHU3fDop&typo=1 >> FRIAM-COMIC >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,wln-6CdrjA_4uff3GI8wUCZyIMC88Zxins7KuUVLX80jEH0pwrBwf2AUT_JOUB14aM0k0ZzsK50CXFoLhPstKdytYXRamh1YY0ACGC9EiTb4NzQx&typo=1 >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present >> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,7NIsmfgWqdPw0RZtyrM7sk9AMPG5BvhV1sAqwPUcd8T_2waciCSI09GeQfgBs4uyvChcZtyL4aKJfcPVVN4k8bsBtADKfOriRvU8iueSPEGhNwSMoiA,&typo=1 >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,w_Fh7Js-h-uyQL8iV0dc18mFECmQYJs2TAnWu5wrtZ073OEUkGqwGpbRl3H97HAGBSRux6reWhEQen1I_Vh6ayezGaerpfA6070NYRncgbN-STh4kyA,&typo=1> >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,5ruB7du22jYexvc32zMbbFZVI0TZxoGJFfVfv0n1SXo1Vtg2SvuCuaJ1AVgVT309errLMZpyWPNMOJ1dLEvGl-PXorxWZleLNjxd18YKwaFDLsM_JQ,,&typo=1> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,PIOTDAZlZY6qbVLm9eurykv6HRE4IAr5OceEwlg4RNSxDYpOFwBTasOIOg2LEMwF7vw2PzHxZL0bJNZL1ucKQrDYGFPD1gTcG3fOJPN4sO9FuTafGQ,,&typo=1> >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,TJON23j49DzQPEwidyWd3zn5fzmbn_wlED77-y8IfU5iwrEWaVyk7wxOQVRHsLoG1zr2PB8tdJrYOXM3MJTt5X01BZXffZ_h4n-bH23RfROMWqsLcFYKDSYxN6k,&typo=1> >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,Vx8tCsRWcMFSEvapY_HyXE9Kq3b8um8h56eJuhXD9p4A1HUaYJ7pbFCAy-eS7vNSqWrmuMOeeurDZXCA2QsHfVBWBlJbB2rtCBNrf_EZzgbxhp_TfPdY9k1QtxJb&typo=1 > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,wjh3JqAl1_KcspzqmfrtkU1PkdZ7crn2hLzlbq__o5Bgwyi284v7YmNlMXdx_zgWB53oJP2-0gVli_FdCZK0feYxtHoLzTfrxX6Ge8gZnMktoJQw&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,mulq-9mQpBI2oFddz0Hv5LAgjkzgLW2Cpgxukl6AWKl78X375I8DlTYVjDqI2gi7iVlR1kahuQBiOMVFCJ6MdYCynFQRebxuryp5Fq3ayAIpMCzDgJc6ZG_EMQ,,&typo=1 > archives: > 5/2017 thru present > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,NGvsP5oBo16Yt4Avjl3R-ayF5KD3uysbk_ubu4nq9fVw2G2EuZCb5D6shNYCKqmyVh2B2R5cKJh5ZL7dYQBE3Gu7L4PxBFobiB_ljHPLby-wJuUI&typo=1 > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
.-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
