I think people need to see what the right has in mind. -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 7:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] oversight
But what's the best way to a democratic majority that's *represented* in the actual cumulative structure that results in nation-wide rights? The only way I can see to do that is with a large value system. In the face of deep threats, the lefties need to stop berating Blue Dogs and pretending there's no shared value system. That shared value system operates a lot like first principles. On 5/20/22 07:17, Marcus Daniels wrote: > As you admit there are no first principles to consider, so there is nothing > to put back together. The other side is fully saturated by prevaricators > who can't be trusted to debate in a reasonable way. Polling indicates the > preference is on the side of the left. This consensus needs to be > converted, in the fullness of time, into a usable democratic majority. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 7:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] oversight > > Yeah, I get that. But there's an inertia to consider. If we manage to put the > Right back into place tenuously, without convincing enough of the other side > to relax or compromise, then they'll dig in even more. The tenuous > installation feeds into their rhetoric. We need at least a semblance of > cooperative consensus. > > The Federalist Society (and orgs like The Fellowship > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_%28Christian_organization%29>) > are not going to simply give up and go home. They've worked for decades to > overturn Roe and other tenuously established values could soon topple, as > well. > > There seems to be 2 options: 1) engage with their good arguments and shelve > their bad arguments, cafeteria style, or 2) come up with our own Illuminati > style insidious strategy. (2) requires discipline lefties just don't have, in > part because we criticize ourselves. (1) is the practical path. > > On 5/19/22 12:14, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> This why I won’t be “pretending” to consider the other side of this issue. >> It could cause harm for the sake of stupid people. >> >>> On May 19, 2022, at 11:47 AM, glen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I agree. But I don't think that's obvious to many people. I also think the >>> foundations of math are political (... or perhaps ideological). And the >>> understandable tendency to reduce sociology to psychology to biology to >>> chemistry to physics is also political (or ideological). But there are >>> plenty of people smarter and more well-intentioned than me who disagree. >>> >>> So for those people, whether originalists or evolutionists, who believe in >>> the Rule of Law, it's up to them (or us if we play along with the pretense) >>> to derive the right from the Constitution ... and perhaps peri-Constitution >>> precedent. And if the right *can't* be so derived, then it has to be >>> grafted on as an additional axiom, either a federal amendment or a >>> diversity of state laws/amendments. >>> >>>> On 5/19/22 11:35, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> What first principles? The court is a political organization. > > -- Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
