Cool^_^. On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 4:05 PM David Eric Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> Gil, hi, > > Want to acknowledge, but too many and too hard questions for me to pick up. > > However, it is worth saying that a few things are fairly simple, and where > they are, it makes the universe more manageable to notice it. > > 1. We have a “hierarchy of matter”. Meaning that we have an ordering of > phases that we understand well. > A — plasmas. The electrons are free of the atoms, and it is all a big > electrically-conductive and magnetically convective more-than-gas. Flames > include plasma. > B — gases. The electrons are now bound tightly to the atoms, but the > atoms aren’t bound to each other, so they are still loose and floaty. > C — nuclear matter: This is present inside the atoms, and relative to the > nuclei, the atoms are mostly “empty space”, even though the electrons are > as tight as they can get. We can break nuclei, and in the early universe > (much earlier than the plasma-phase), there was a kind of uber-plasma of > components of nuclei, but that won’t be part of my list here. > > 2. When we look at stars, they actually have the same hierarchy. So the > follow the structure of matter. > A — ordinary stars are a combination of plasma and gas. The plasma is all > the glowing stuff, and the fact that they have color and spectral lines > comes from the fact that some part of the atmosphere is condensed as far as > a gas phase. > B — white dwarfs are like “star-atoms”: all the gas-floatiness is > compressed out of them, and they are as tight as atoms in the way the > electrons are bound around the nuclei; only star-sized. Probably with some > aspects like metals, in that the electrons can be shared somewhat among > atoms. > C — neutron stars are like “star-nuclei”: they are dense enough that all > the electrons have combined with protons to make neutrons. So the > “empty-space” part of atoms has been crushed away. > > 3. The interesting thing is that we don’t have any more levels of stable > matter denser than the nuclei. So if a star gets denser than that, it > doesn’t stop any more, and we go all the way to the black hole. So it’s > not mysterious that we can build three kinds of machines on Earth (fires, > gas engines, particle accelerators), and that we have three kinds of stars > (ordinary, white dwarf, neutron star); it is the same thing seen in two > places. > > > About higher dimensions, time, etc. Hard to find people who talk about > this in a no-BS way that one can also understand. Lisa Randall wrote a > book called “Warped Passages”; she may be somebody who has also given > lectures that you can find on the web. I read the book a long time ago, > and given the subject, it’s okay. Lisa is smart, and pretty > straightforward. I haven’t looked for YouTube lectures. > > All best, > > Eric > > > > On May 15, 2022, at 1:15 AM, Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> > wrote: > > thanks again for the ELI5 explanations! > > Something that bothers me. > Given things around nature tend to have complementary pairs: two right > triangles can be ligned up to make a square, the gold ratio makes for > gorgeous baroque style art etc etc > We have super light things and super dense things: > so where the hell are objects like white dwarfs, or more exotic and > surreal where linear time order doesn't exist. When have something super > dense that pulls all kinds of stuff twards it. And it'd also seem like we'd > have a few 4 and 5d objects running around, like some cool acid trip. What > I mean are such warped and strange areas of space, quite possible only > forming under ver specific conditions where: > -Given the standard model isn't going anyplace > -And quantum physics isn't either > if we didn't have structured dimensions for some amount of time while the > universe cooled: shouldn't their also be at least a few objects that didn't > cool in away we've encountered so far: possible stars made of nothing but > tachyons somehow (for instance) might be as many relative to mainline types > (like the sun). > > lol or do I need coffee and put down science articles about weird things I > hardly grasp? > > On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 3:57 AM Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> 😍😀😁 >> >> On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 12:45 AM David Eric Smith <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Gil, >>> >>> Yes, several good questions, some with answers, some not known. >>> >>> Ok now that I got that out my system: >>> I had wondered if this is the same science stunt we used to image a >>> blackhole...but what are they using as a light source >>> >>> >>> The light is actually being generated by gas or dust that spirals very >>> fast around the black hole itself. Things that swirl around a central >>> object don’t move cleanly. There is a lot of turbulence and collision, and >>> they heat up. Because the infall around BHs is so fast, they get very hot >>> and glow. >>> >>> As for what frequencies they use to observe, I think it is an >>> intersection of three considerations: 1) it has to be a wavelength long >>> enough that the telescopes can get phase coherence, which I think means >>> somewhere in the radio (microwave might be possible in principle, but quite >>> difficult); 2) it has to be a wavelength that somewhat gets through all the >>> dust between the center of the galaxy and us (I think this is the main >>> limitation); and 3) it has to be some frequency that the BH actually >>> emits. Small ones like BHs from single stars might emit in X-rays, but I >>> think the large ones in galaxy centers are mostly radio sources, unless >>> they produce jets that create a secondary source of light. (Check me on >>> this; I could be way off.) >>> >>> and how do decide on the galaxy's center >>> >>> >>> I think people now believe that most galaxy centers have these large BHs >>> in them. It’s remarkable that 50 years ago, that had not been suspected. >>> When I was a kid, I read an old Asimov book “Quasar, quasar, burning >>> bright”, in which none of this was even a main theory. >>> >>> was this also created by the sheer weight of the galaxy? >>> >>> >>> This is the thing nobody knows. They are so large, and the seem to have >>> formed so early, that it doesn’t seem possible for star-sized BHs to form >>> and then to merge. BHs tend to clean out the dust from the environments >>> where they are for a long time, and without extra frictions, things just >>> orbit for a long time, but don’t collide. I don’t know the details on how >>> people think about this in the best version. >>> >>> or did a star go kaboom their good knows when and it just happened to be >>> more or less dead center of the galaxy? >>> >>> >>> It seems people believe that the gathering that forms the galaxy is >>> somehow related to the formation of dense things, and eventually BHs, at >>> the center. But I don’t know. >>> >>> and are they all shaped like a toilet? >>> >>> >>> They are actually among the roundest things in the universe. The ring, >>> I think, is a very special kind of orbital effects. >>> >>> I taught with a physics prof. In Austin who used to explain mechanics to >>> students in a way I liked. He said “The moon is falling toward the earth, >>> just like an apple would. It’s just that the moon is moving sideways, so >>> it keeps missing”. And that’s all orbits are. They’re falling inward, but >>> they keep missing. >>> >>> Where spacetime starts to tip very strongly near the event horizon, you >>> can do that with light. There is a certain radius where light, traveling >>> sideways, just goes in an orbit. A bit further in, light shining directly >>> outward never gets further out (that is the event horizon). So I think the >>> ring effect isn’t so much that the glowing gas makes any kind of a ring, >>> but because there the light gets condensed into orbits, and when we look at >>> it, it is the light just outside that orbital radius that eventually beams >>> at us. The orbits can be going all around the BH, covering the sphere in >>> any direction, but where we look at the central region of the disk, it is >>> shining “sideways”, and doesn’t eventually beam out to us in a way that >>> looks like it came from there. >>> >>> There are images of GR models, some of which got used in that Matthew >>> McConaughey movie, to suggest what it would look like if you were close by, >>> and didn’t have the combination of lensing distortions, dust, and telescope >>> resolution limitations. I think it gives that ring look from any >>> direction, so this doesn’t have anything to do with rotating disks. In any >>> case, if there were a disk, we wouldn’t see it face-on, because it would be >>> in the same plane of the galaxy as we are. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:08 PM David Eric Smith <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, good stuff. >>>> >>>> I’m not sure when I first heard about the ALMA upgrade that would give >>>> them phase coherence across the telescopes at the frequencies the EHT is >>>> using, and data archiving that would allow them to try to coherently >>>> register telescopes sited all around the world. It feels like about a >>>> decade ago. I have been waiting, since that first notice, to see this >>>> picture. The M87 image a couple years ago was the resolution of the real >>>> cliffhanger — whether they could get it to work at all — but this one was >>>> even 2+ years harder to push through technically. >>>> >>>> I don’t imagine I would want to do that work. It seems like an >>>> incredible tedious grind, made for real professionals. But I am very glad >>>> to be a consumer of the outcome. >>>> >>>> Eric >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 13, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/12/science/black-hole-photo.html >>>> >>>> and it looks a bit like something melting on icecream. fudge or caramel >>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2f%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,g4nNB9lId8M23hD2WsamUUHKMiSCjJePmyzMOQcT1owkCEiv33l21SxdXAuWv6NnKPbMuEQEkoMHTtKZmQdubAMCmkFwpBKkaeVptVwgtnIO7FUMXA,,&typo=1 >>>> un/subscribe >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,tB-5WFDpRpXnEpC__CblcLZYsVkkK_KcQSrz2RFubdvXeUO3mNsX66x1bRINNwyULXBWnuuxT30OrrBQUoWE9bBzCt0yhzfyOkXthh4iKRjM0GTea0mZFpL6Bg,,&typo=1 >>>> FRIAM-COMIC >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,E9TNNRcyezY-Riuyjhrs0n5KeGguwDXKiSiiMtspnqfNgCgmlFYyf-UHQLcz4Va7UXpP6-TXvUHvgndjZl6bmNjjadexHY7xJyplJe0sVazKrMBEA2qDug,,&typo=1 >>>> archives: 5/2017 thru present >>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fpipermail%2ffriam_redfish.com%2f&c=E,1,2RdcgQPrfWS0dIFzI4AgZcrhu4Z1MTuSaXb_lBaw2mkjtx6IPReajVomwTdtitLSRSNRyllE9Q_1mBoPjNDfKL6dqdT93iJXEX02vjDYG6xOKFHur8IX&typo=1 >>>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> -. --- - 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