I always thought "shoot oneself in the foot" was inspired by cowboy gunfighters who were in such a hurry to draw fast that they pulled the trigger before getting their gun out of the holster.
I have a Colt 1873 revolver. I'll see if that makes sense. Joke! --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 6:52 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > I was actually rendered speechless by Jochem's post, and the website it > contained. > > Verbose as I am, I am sure that all of you are grateful when I honor > something with my silence. > > I am thinking more about metaphor these days and trying to reconcile > metaphor with monism. I may have to become a metaphor monist. > > A metaphor is real when it is that toward which our thinking trends in the > very long run. Oddly enough, given your alertness to dead metaphors, a > metaphor can lose its reality, as did "hoist by one's own petard" or change > its reality as " shoot oneself in the foot" which I am guessing used to > mean "to intentionally incapacitate oneself" and now means "to accidently > do something self destructively stupid." > > If we are metaphor monists, we believe that "all thought is in metaphors" > and that all metaphors are to other metaphors. Eric will instantly > announce that Ihave fallen prey to blather. Perhaps so. But I hope to > cash this out in the next few months. > > Nick > > N > > Nick Thompson > [email protected] > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] signal and noise > > Nick, > > noise is the signal - no a koan at all, but a conjecture that all that is > considered noise, at this point, will eventually be revealed as signal. In > part because, I believe, that the 'noise' is essential context for > interpreting the signal. This is based almost entirely on natural language > where syntax is inadequate for conveying meaning. > > And, I was surprised when you failed to find justification from Jochen's > post about metaphor and how it supports (y)our long held position that it > is "metaphors all the way down." > > All, > > Thank you for the thoughtful responses to my question. I take to heart > Glen's cautions about over generalization and "othering." None of the > conversations I was referring to were binary, and all were comprised of > nuanced polyphonic positions from all participants with points of agreement > as frequent as disagreement. More empathy than othering. > > It does seem to me that if and when there was any kind of 'final > divergence' it centered around a kind of signal-noise dichotomy along with > an assertion of 'faith': e.g., anything human can do,HAL will do better; > or, just say OM and drop acid. > > davew > > > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, at 10:22 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > David, > > > > I was with you until "signal is the noise". Great Koan, but otherwise > > useless for thought. > > > > When you say, however, that there is a signal in what others take to > > be noise, of course I have to prick up my ears. A great example of > > this was that "junk" DNA which turned out to be, at least, structural. > > It also turned out to be a mind of memory. Junk Schmunk. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West > > Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 7:12 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [FRIAM] signal and noise > > > > It seems, to me, that several conversations here—AI, hallucinogens, > > consciousness, participant observation, and epistemology—have a common > > aspect: a body of "data" and disagreement over which subset should be > > attended to (Signal) and that which is irrelevant (Noise). > > > > Arguments for sorting/categorization would include: lack of a Peircian > > convergence/consensus; inability to propose proper experiments; > > anecdotal versus systematic collection; an absolute conviction that > > everything is algorithmic and, even if the algorithm has yet to be > > discerned, it, ultimately, must be; etc.. > > > > I often feel as if my positions on these various topics reduces, in > > some sense, to a conviction that there is overlooked Signal in > > everyone else's Noise; even to the point of believing the Noise IS the > Signal. > > > > Is this in any way a "fair' or "reasonable" analysis? > > > > davew > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > archives: 5/2017 thru present > > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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