Instead of a cable - maybe Tesla’s unrealized broadcast technology? I don’t 
remember the details but he was going to send power from Long Island, via the 
ionosphere, to light the world expo in Paris. 

Davew

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Following the conception of a Transatlantic power cable, I just heard on the 
> radio that a couple huge globe-ish spanning electrical-busses are under 
> planning... one that might span from Thailand to Saudi Arabia (through 
> northern India) with Solar (and other renewables?) tapping in along the way 
> and load-shifting E/W with the sunlight and load.   Also maybe one that spans 
> Australia which I believe to be about as wide as the US?   
> 
> Seems like TX's problems stemming from their own (short-sighted?) 
> self-isolation might be good hosts/promoters of such a long-throw?   
> 
> I don't know what it would take to upgrade the national rail system to also 
> be a load-balancing shadow network for renewable electricity?   I assume none 
> of them are electrified (third rail) but maybe laying one, given the 
> pre-existing right-of-way and regular inspection/maintenance/access available 
> would be of interest?   But then maybe our FriAM member who is working on 
> converting natural gas to pneumatic energy-transfer/storage knows more about 
> all those issues?   Hybridized infrastructure across many types?   
> 
> Maybe the existing Diesel-Electric Engines (most of what is on the rail) 
> could tap in mildly to reduce diesel consumption and do their own load 
> leveling?   Fill empty tankers with water at the top of lines (where there 
> *is* water) and carry it to low lying land, extracting the PE from the 
> mass/elevation drop? Reline old asphalt/fuel-oil/etc tankers and provide 
> boutique "Rocky Mountain" (or Cascades) branch-water to the big cities while 
> extracting (maybe) enough energy from the elevation drop to at least pay to 
> haul the damn empties back up the hill?   
> 
>  With me as the big "unintended consequence" chicken-little, I'm sure most if 
> not all of my hare-brained schemes are truly just "asking for trouble", but I 
> think it is inevitable that they will all be considered in the spirit of 
> adjacent-technical-possibles...
> 
> National Railway System: 
> https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=96ec03e4fc8546bd8a864e39a2c3fc41
> 
>> This fusion video should be the standard for how to present every single 
>> technological innovation, every so-called "renewable energy" device that is 
>> too little, too late, and most importantly distracts us from thinking 
>> seriously about how we shall survive climate catastrophe and continue to 
>> live a flourishing life on earth.  Thank you Carl--I think you sent this 
>> link to the group. 
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 10:57 AM cody dooderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I had never heard of a transatlantic power grid. That is an interesting 
>>> idea. The sun is probably shining somewhere on the earth at any given time. 
>>> Would a lot of energy get wasted with the long distances? 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:46 AM Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> frank: ah! thanks. It seems like you've had 99 lives man.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:28 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I like the idea of a large transatlantic DC power cable.   That would 
>>>>> enable solar power to be distributed around the world.   It would reduce 
>>>>> the need to depend on batteries for wind and solar.   Of course, you 
>>>>> raise #3, so it would be a target for sabotage like with Nordstream.  It 
>>>>> would be nice to think there are things just to valuable to destroy, but 
>>>>> probably there are no such things.
>>>>> 
>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of Sarbajit Roy 
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 16, 2022 12:01 AM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] technical notes on fusion announcement 
>>>>>  
>>>>> What you are missing includes 
>>>>> 1) Disposal of long term hazardous nuclear waste.
>>>>> 2) Problems in maintaining / decommissioning ol older nuclear fission 
>>>>> plants
>>>>> 3) Examples like we are seeing Ukraine's nuclear plants caught up in a 
>>>>> war.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 2:59 AM Gillian Densmore <[email protected]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Ok so this is cool and all. 
>>>>>> Sigh I'll ask *that* question. We want less carbons because the planet 
>>>>>> is on f'n fire <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFgBFYkBZ6E>  . As far 
>>>>>> as I know humans (in the very least) accelerated climate change. Ie we 
>>>>>> made this mess clean it up. ok fair so far I'm following.
>>>>>> So uh why not just start with fission (breeders) ? Why not also put as 
>>>>>> much money into matter/anti matter as well as fusion? We can make minute 
>>>>>> amounts of antimatter in massive collider. I'd think something who's by 
>>>>>> product are xrays gamma and some other stuff with a lot of energy 
>>>>>> created would be a massive honney pot the department of energy would 
>>>>>> pursue as well.
>>>>>> I know the answer to fission (sadly) is NIMBY. (yes but it's a lot 
>>>>>> cleaner and safer than oil and coal I say) 
>>>>>> I don't know why we haven't looked at other things as well
>>>>>> What I'm saying is fusion has been humans icarus wings with it being 
>>>>>> just arround the corner for decades. while matter/anti matter is (sort 
>>>>>> of) here. Fission is here. Want zero carbons? cool! so why not build out 
>>>>>> a ton of reactors we already can do. Or am I missing something?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 8:31 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> How ICF might evolve into a power plant: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   https://firstlightfusion.com/technology/power-plant
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2022, at 7:16 AM, glen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Excellent! Thanks. I think I'll have to push this topic for another 
>>>>>>>> day. I've got a few more links from other fora I'll plop here just in 
>>>>>>>> case I only land back here if/when I pop it off the stack later:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
>>>>>>>> https://spie.org/news/nuclear-fusion-nifs-hall-of-mirrors-may-solve-worlds-energy-crisis?SSO=1
>>>>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-power-may-run-fuel-even-gets-started
>>>>>>>> https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/12/what-enabled-the-big-boost-in-fusion-energy-announced-this-week/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/13/22 16:23, Steve Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think DT refers simply to the remaining fraction of 
>>>>>>>>> Deuterium/Tritium remaining after the reaction event (-4%) without 
>>>>>>>>> specific accounting for remaining D vs T.
>>>>>>>>> My understanding is that D-T  fusion occurs at a lower temperature 
>>>>>>>>> than D-D but that once fusion commences (starting with D-T), both D-T 
>>>>>>>>> and D-D reactions occurring in similar amounts. In laser-driven ICF 
>>>>>>>>> (as with NIF) I believe the ratio of D/T is nominally 50/50 though it 
>>>>>>>>> would seem to make sense to have a higher T to D ratio but most 
>>>>>>>>> references I see imply equal portions.   An equal number of D-D and 
>>>>>>>>> D-T reactions would seem to consume D more quickly, though as that 
>>>>>>>>> commences, the D/T ratio would go down, making D-T reactions (yet) 
>>>>>>>>> more likely...   tricky business, no wonder it has taken decades to 
>>>>>>>>> get to this point?
>>>>>>>>> The Wikipedia Entry on ICF is pretty good: 
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_confinement_fusion
>>>>>>>>> I found several popular science Articles which seem to reinforce my 
>>>>>>>>> sense that this "breakthrough" is not as significant as implied:
>>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really
>>>>>>>>> Other interesting/relevant links regarding D-T and D-D fusion...
>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263507001_Species_separation_and_modification_of_neutron_diagnostics_in_inertial-confinement_fusion/figures?lo=1
>>>>>>>>> https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions 
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsnuclear-fusion-reactions>
>>>>>>>>> https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>> <https://science.jrank.org/pages/4732/Nuclear-Fusion-D-D-D-T-reactions.html>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/22 4:36 PM, glen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> That's why I asked. I guess I'll assume DT means both deuterium and 
>>>>>>>>>> tritium, not just deuterium. If you were going to track fuel use, 
>>>>>>>>>> you'd track the rarer part more closely, right?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/22 09:22, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> DT = deuterium?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly
>>>>>>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>>>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 505 670-9918
>>>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 10:21 AM glen <[email protected] 
>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>     Awesome. Thanks. I'm still trying to catch up with the QC 
>>>>>>>>>>> Wormhole kerfuffle. Who knew Quanta was so click baity?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>     What is "DT"?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>     On 12/13/22 09:02, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>      > In case no one wanted to get up at 7:00am to watch DOE 
>>>>>>>>>>> administrators talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 1. Controlling the laser in space and time was important for 
>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining symmetry.  Timing precision of 25e-12 secs and laser 
>>>>>>>>>>> spatial precision of 5e-12 meter were needed. This was thought to 
>>>>>>>>>>> be the main explanation for the achievement.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 2. 8% more power on the laser this time
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 3. x-ray tomography is used to find flaws in the capsules.  
>>>>>>>>>>> Developing software to do the counting.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 4. They have ongoing efforts to study the fabrication 
>>>>>>>>>>> systems and their components (done in Germany) to find 
>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncrasies of each.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 5. Laser technology improvements since NIF was built which 
>>>>>>>>>>> are 20% more efficient.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 6. Target cost is from labor, and it takes 7 months each
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 7. 4% of DT is burned in a shot
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 8. Machine learning ties together radiation hydrodynamics 
>>>>>>>>>>> and experimental data.   (It sounded preliminary.)
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 9. The (successful) capsule had more defects than previous 
>>>>>>>>>>> experiments.   However, previous experiments did show benefits from 
>>>>>>>>>>> capsule quality.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 10. 15% of experiments are indirect drive of this kind, 15% 
>>>>>>>>>>> of experiments are other approaches to ignition.  The rest are 
>>>>>>>>>>> weapons and materials characterization.
>>>>>>>>>>>      >
>>>>>>>>>>>      > 11. Anomalous laser directional control were problems in the 
>>>>>>>>>>> summer runs.   Fixed that.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>>>>>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
>> Center for Emergent Diplomacy
>> emergentdiplomacy.org
>> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
>> 
>> mobile:  (303) 859-5609
>> 
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