Nothing could be more calculated to bring an old pedant out from under his rock than this thread:
Mine is the use of "incredible" to mean "excellent". As in, "Don't you think Rachel Maddow is an incredible commentator?" There was an Australian Philosopher, David Stove, who wrote a book called, Popper and After, which talked about how modern thought seemed devoted to neutralizing success words ... such as "credibile", for instance. Orwell, saw it as a step toward Fascism. FASCHISM. Shirley, I jest. Faschism could never happen in the Unite States! i used to faint-dead when people used "inform" to mean "shape" as in,"My thinking was informed by Glen's concept, Steelmanning," but I am trying to get over that. Turns out it's a perfectly valid meaning of the verb, and I don't have a leg to stand on. I still hate it, but I hate it quietly. I don't object when people say it. I just think about ways to kill them later. Beware, Nick Nick, On Fri, Dec 1, 2023 at 11:18 AM Steve Smith <sasm...@swcp.com> wrote: > Glen - > > I appreciate that you shared with us your "handicap" which reminds me of > your self-report a few years back of tryptophobia. > > I also am triggered by both of these. Your examples of Nukular/Nuclear > and Axe/Ask are obviously pretty familiar. I respond to them pretty > pre-consciously without overtly reacting, which kicks me into a new > register of reflective judgement: to whit "what does this choice/not-choice > of this particular articulation imply about the character and values of > this person?". > > From a 2002 article in the NYT > <https://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/weekinreview/confronting-noo-kyuh-luhr-proliferation.html> > : > > *Yet the use of ''NOO-kyuh-luhr'' is not uncommon, even among prominent > and educated people, including four of the nation's last 10 presidents: > Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was widely admonished for it; Gerald R. Ford; > Jimmy Carter, who did graduate work in nuclear physics, and also used > ''NOO-kee-yer''; and now George W. Bush.* > > I was not particularly bothered by or aware of this mispronunciation until > the constant hammering of GW Bush to the tune of his > (Cheney/Rumsfeldt/Wolfowitz?) drumbeats leading up to the Iraq War. I > attributed it to a combination of his (affected or adopted?) Texas > drawl/slang and his (apparent?) willful ignorance of science (as a > dogwhistle to redneck/populists?) I still hear it that way if the speaker > is the least bit leaning toward that end of the spectrum. > > I didn't notice the Axe/Ask division until my father started listening to > Rush Limbaugh in the 90s and shifted from a mild (applauding Archie Bunker) > populist white racist to a more convicted one. "Axe" really triggered him > when he heard it, and I think it was because it could be a marker of AAVE > (aka "ebonics") which I think for him was more of a resentment of Urban > Poverty (vs the Rural Poverty he came from) than specifically the racist > implications (though it was baked into his upbringing/roots even if he > preached anti-racist or at least pro-tolerance to me growing up). > > Your bringing up of this phenomena (and in particular "metathesis") lead > me (as it often does) to take a quick dive into a rabbit hole and "larn me > some stuff". Thank you. > > In closing, I'm fascinated by the relationship between phobias and > philias, which might be a reformulation of addictions vs allergies. Your > tryptophobia exhibits as more of a tryptophilia in me... a fascination > bordering (but I don't give over to) on fetish. The dirty little corner > of youtube dedicated to "pimple popping" and "blackhead removal", for > example whispers to me when I trip into it's perimeters. > > I also find unusual dialects of American (as well a the broad British > Commonwealth) fascinating (bordering on philia if not fetish). And I > find most "southern Cracker" variants a marker of willful ignorance (or > ignorant willfulness?) which I attribute to my main exposure coming through > my Appalachian Cousins who are generally moderately educated (none failed > to graduate HS that I know of and some even obtained PhDs). To complement > that, *most* are diehard born-again Xtian types who have to work "have you > accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior" into any extended > encounter. So when they lace their (otherwise educated or sophisticated) > conversation with Southern American English pronunciations and idioms (e.g. > all y'all) and "Jahysuz" references I cringe and lower my estimation of > their character, intelligence, and general sensibilities by a notch or > two... but the top half of my brain seems to know better and renormalizes > as best it can... > > I've a good friend who said it well: "Don't mistake an accent for a > personality". She wass mostly referencing her predilection for falling for > men (and women) with exotic accents. > > > On 12/1/23 10:07 AM, glen wrote: > > I made the mistake of confessing my handicap to a friend. Now he > purposefully says nukular as a kind of Castañedan slap on the back, or the > master's whack with the stick. He knows it knocks me out of whatever canal > I was in. It's irritating, but a good thing overall. > > Actually, it started with the pronunciation of diacetyl, which most of my > friends at the brewery pronounce "die-ASS-uh-tul". That's another one that > doesn't give me the hiccups. My Mansplainer homunculus doesn't even notice. > But I did get a chance to discuss it with the owner, wherein I suggested > that "ASS-uh-tal" is a chemical group that's fundamentally different from > acetyl. And, even though there's almost zero chance of anyone *ever* saying > the word "diacetal", it's still reasonable to prefer the more common > "die-uh-SEE-tul". After all, nobody says "ASS-uh-tul-kole-een" or > "ASS-uh-tul-een torch". On the other hand, hangovers are discussed a lot in > places like breweries ... with taprooms at least. And acetaldehyde is > (almost) pronounced like "ASS-uh-tul-dee-hide" (with some wiggle around > "tul" vs "tal"). So, again, there is some slight reason prefer one > pronunciation over the other. > > No such luck with nukular. Any desire to correct someone when they say it > that way is empty (and actually false) pedantry. I still hate it, though. > > On 12/1/23 07:28, Frank Wimberly wrote: > > My dad was a nuclear engineer and nukular has always bothered me greatly. > I try to help people to say it right by telling them to think "new clear". > I'm not sure that would help Bush. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Fri, Dec 1, 2023, 8:21 AM glen <geprope...@gmail.com > <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com> <geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > So, on the death of The War Criminal, I've been reflecting on the most > irritating thing to me about George W Bush's stint: nukular. Sure. It's > irritating that he started a war for no good reason. If we learn anything > from Kissinger's treatment by the press, it's that those sorts of things > don't actually matter. > > But the way you pronounce "nuclear"? That matters ... to me, anyway. > I've managed to grind off the burrs in my thinking when someone says "axe" > instead of "ask", glottals their Ts, etc. But I just can't get over > nukular. Every time someone says it that way, whatever it was I was doing > or thinking goes straight out the fscking window. With, say, "axe", I can > actually do it myself without feeling shame. Same with t-flapping. (And > vocal fry.) > > Wikipedia gives me a nice list of triggerable attributes of language: > metathesis, elision, epenthesis, flapping, assimilation, dissimilation, > etc. My request, here, is for examples from anyone that rankle you or that > you've overcome. Presumably, the more aware I am with others' struggles > with such, the less I'll be triggered by my own. > > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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