Well, OK. But we don't want to stretch the analogy too far. Is memory different from attention? Of course we can say "no" if we want to. Or we can say "yes". But I think we should take Eric's idea (or a bastardized form of it, anyway) and suggest that an algorithm (or via Curry-Howard, a theory) explicitly cognized as an *algorithm* is different from the implicit algorithmicity [🙄] in some tool's affordances. I'm not doing `git commit` in the same way one hangs a hammer on their tool rack. What I've committed is a small chunk of automation as opposed to an atomic device by which one does manual work.
So I'd argue that automaticity is different from, say, writing down a recipe on paper. How different? IDK. But it's a difference worth acknowledging and not washing away too prematurely. I guess the essence of the difference surfaces in biology more so than physical/material interactions. We only recently learned to algorithmically *use* biological agents. Even if we allow things like Feudal Lords, institutional slavery, or Machiavellian manipulation, that's still fairly recent (less than 10k years?). But no matter how much control you have over your serfs or flock (e.g. a shaman), it's nothing like what we can do with CRISPR. That's qualitatively different in terms of automaticity. On 8/14/25 9:26 AM, Prof David West wrote:
glen:/"Yep. If we take the analogy between externalized memory and externalized attention seriously, it seems clear we've been doing this for ... what? ... decades already." / I would, (have in my doctoral dissertation) argue that we, as a species, have been doing this since we emerged as a distinct species. [actually, even earlier] Accelerating in a near exponential fashion as language and culture arose. The mechanism is a simple feedback loop: the environment "prompts' actions—many of which alter the environment—increasing the likelihood of taking the same actions in the future. At a cognitive level, using Hopfield's landscape metaphor of a neural network, simply add an additional factor adjusting the weights that shape the landscape: "Consistency" (combination of frequency and consistency) of inputs that result from actions that altered the context from which those inputs arose. Most life, to greater or lesser extents, do the same thing. This is why, IMO, that species do not evolve; only species in context do. davew On Thu, Aug 14, 2025, at 9:46 AM, glen wrote: > Yep. If we take the analogy between externalized memory and > externalized attention seriously, it seems clear we've been doing this > for ... what? ... decades already. Each algorithm [1] makes choices for > us [2]. The value systems behind GOFAI seem quaint these days. But it's > the same stuff. Each time I `git commit`, I select/filter/canalize what > I'll do the next time I land near that region of the landscape ... I > guess it's part of the reason I hate working in the REPL. But > particularly with Claude (and maybe Kimi K2), I have something like a > meta-REPL where I can zoom out a bit ... see the coarser canal > structure laid over the finer ones, up and down the granularity scale. > > But it'll never replace my Socratic homunculous' need to feel the sand > in her toes ... conversational mixed martial arts, that subtle change > in someone's facial muscles when you tell a joke at layer 3 that's a > non sequitur at layers 0-2. [sigh] > > [1] ... writ large from diagnostic flowcharts in old textbooks to > artifacts like computational proofs to capitalist exploitation like the > youtube "algorithm" ... > > [2] Also writ large, where "us" includes corporations and nations as > well as individuals and families. > > On 8/13/25 10:35 AM, Jon Zingale wrote: >> ``` >> "Socrates, he who does not write" >> —Nietzche >> ``` >> —Derrida >> of Grammatology > >> On 8/13/25 7:22 AM, glen wrote: >>> >>> Attention Machines and Future Politics >>> https://jacmullen.substack.com/p/attention-machines-and-future-politics <https://jacmullen.substack.com/p/attention-machines-and-future-politics> >
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