Agreed. I wasn’t willing to create an account for the Intelligencer article, but the other two that Glen sent were ideal, and a great relief. I am pleased that it only took a few days of thought for sense to begin to be circulated.
I have wondered, given that we have had all the terms forever to characterize it (trolling, etc.), why people persist in what I call “patsy” responses: to refuse to engage with the point, which is the distinction between good and bad faith behavior, when they say things like "so-and-so (whoever it is) wants harm only to `the people they disagree with’ ”. Among the choreographers and arsonists at the top, there isn’t any “disagreement”, because there aren’t real things they “believe”. It’s about creating target groups, and a lot of performative domination games played out by attacking them in escalating ways (exclude, harass, threaten, attack, ultimately kill if it gets that far), which they market to their mob as a source of identity as a way to keep the mob up and active behind them, and to create general social chaos and degradation, because those are contexts where they have an easier time taking things. Every kid who gets this done (whether to himself or to others in view) quickly understands what it’s about. Why does one have to push away such large piles of nonsense to get to the pieces that state (in small format; it doesn’t even require a lot of writing) where the point is? In any case, thanks, Eric > On Sep 19, 2025, at 1:15, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > > The thing I noticed about the response to this event was the boilerplate > statements by pundits and politicians on the left. > The one person that said something sort of reasonable (Matthew Dowd) was > immediately fired by MSNBC. > It is not a good use of law enforcement resources to prioritize the > protection of people that create safety risks to themselves and others for no > good reason. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of Prof David West > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2025 9:05 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] argumentation > > Once upon a time, I attended, participated in, and even organized, > demonstrations, "debates," and speechifying, the contents of which included > advocating violence while denigrating and preaching hatred against everyone > who might disagree. All in opposition to the prevailing sociopolitical > orthodoxy. > > I guess the only major difference between then and now was the fact that we > spoke the TRUTH and today it is all LIES. > > davew > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2025, at 9:57 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> It also reminded me of the days of ruining the visit of the apologists >> on campus. >> But when they show up with a whole organization to create a bad-faith >> spectacle, I could see how arguing would seem pointless and motivate >> other approaches. >> Ideally the university would know better and stop this stuff. >> One way to think about it that these young men are canaries in the >> coal mine. They suggest what might be coming next. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen >> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2025 7:41 AM >> To: friam@redfish.com >> Subject: [FRIAM] argumentation >> >> The “Debate Me Bro” Grift: How Trolls Weaponized The Marketplace Of >> Ideas >> https://www.techdirt.com/2025/09/17/the-debate-me-bro-grift-how-trolls >> -weaponized-the-marketplace-of-ideas/ >> >> I've ranted about the retreat into informal reasoning because formal >> reasoning doesn't seem bushy enough to handle all the vagaries we need >> for wild type reasoning. A friend of mine who leans heavily to the >> right, but thankfully could not vote for Cheeto Jesus, made the >> comment that Kirk was "just trying to talk to people". I regret that I >> didn't try to correct him. I did remind him that I spent a lot of my >> off time in college surrounded by very aggressive Christians, trying >> to tell them how wrong they were. I mean, anyone who engages in that >> sort of thing in a place like Texas (where we were) should *know* >> they're likely to get shot. I was fine with the risk. And so should >> Kirk have been. >> >> Anywya, it seems to me his assassination is tightly analogous to the >> assassination of the United Health CEO. The *damage* Kirk has done to >> discourse is analogous to the damage people like Thompson do to health >> (not healthcare, but health). Is it the same? No, of course not. Is it >> analogous? Yes, I think so. >> >> And I know lots of people here are tolerant of Sabine. But she's right >> there in the pit of vipers with Kirk. This article may help put that >> in >> perspective: >> >> How the New Atheists Joined the MAHA War on Science >> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/new-atheists-maha-war-on-scien >> ce.html >> >> But any of us are susceptible to the attractor. And once you're in it, >> *how* do you extract yourself? >> >> p.s. 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