7 :p On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:15 PM, rholgstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks for this amazing insight. you must be a 5 time cissp > > James Matthews wrote: > >> When you break into a system using an exploit there is a chance that the >> shellcode will crash the system. >> >> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Exibar <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> McKinnon did cause damage: >> >> "The charges include one incident - shortly after the attacks on >> September >> 11 2001 - which brought down a network of 300 computers at the >> Earle naval >> weapons station. Another raid apparently left 2,000 government >> machines in >> Washington inoperable." >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/apr/28/hacking.security >> >> A message left by him on a system: >> >> "As part of his quest he left this message on an Army computer in >> 2002: >> "U.S. foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these >> days.... It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand >> down on >> September 11 last year ... I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt >> at the >> highest levels." >> http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/08/uk-hacker-gary.html (and >> many >> other sources with the same message) >> >> Sure sounds like a criminal that knows what he's doing, and is >> doing it >> willfully, doesn't it? >> >> Oh yah, and he's really only facing a fine and up to 10 years of >> prison >> time in the US... I guess things really are different translating >> to the >> metric system in the UK... >> http://www.fortlewismwr.com/Computer_Fraud_Abuse_Act.htm >> >> Wondering what the maximum term in the UK is for the same crime? >> Hold on >> to your seat... >> LIFE IN PRISON (see next paragraph) >> >> "As the Divisional Court itself pointed out (at para 34), the >> gravity of the >> offences alleged against the appellant should not be understated: the >> equivalent domestic offences include an offence under section 12 >> of the >> Aviation and Maritime Security Act 1990 for which the maximum >> sentence is >> life imprisonment." >> >> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldjudgmt/jd080730/mckinn-1 >> .htm >> < >> http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldjudgmt/jd080730/mckinn-1.htm >> > >> That link is a link to the very court brief itself on McKinnin's >> appeal >> in the UK... >> >> McKinnon should face the charges of computer crime that he's >> facing. He >> should, and will, be tried, either in the US or in the UK. But, >> keep in >> mind that it is the UK that will extradite him, and it is the UK >> that has >> ruled that he *should* be extradited for his crimes.... >> >> >> Ok, I'm done now :-) >> >> Exibar >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of >> Kyrian >> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:31 AM >> To: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: [inbox] Re: [Full-disclosure] Supporters urge halt to >> hacker's,extradition to US >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> "American officials involved in this case have stated that they >> want >> >> to see him 'fry'."-- BBC. >> >> >> [IANAL, correct me if I'm wrong, etc, but...] >> >> Yes, that's a large part of the problem. >> >> That courts *can* be bought (usually indirectly via already-bought >> officials, or more nasty methods), and that government officials have >> said the above makes it worse still. >> >> The thought that US law was apparently changed from requiring >> damage to >> systems to get a conviction to not requiring such damage, very >> recently, >> is another problem. >> >> The fact that neither the US or the UK (as far as I'm aware) actually >> has a sane enough legal framework for this sort of thing, or enough >> police (anyonewho's dealt with the UK's former "High Tech Crime Unit" >> will know this), judges (there are many examples of judges being >> "out of >> touch" in their rulings), etc. who are actually aware enough of the >> underlying technology to deal with it sensibly is another. >> >> I agree with whoever said that people should be extradited to the >> country in which they caused damage, but not under circumstances like >> these, and not when there is no agreed standard of law between the >> country the person would be extradited from, and the one they >> would go to. >> >> In the UK it still requires damage to be done for it to be a criminal >> offense, and that does not seem set to change. >> >> That it is possible to cause damage to (badly managed) systems by >> doing >> absolutely nothing in a lot of circumstances (as I am finding right >> now), that logs can be faked, and that the dividing line between >> probes >> versus actual hacking attempts is at times a very narrow one, there is >> plenty of reason not to agree extradite Gary. >> >> That he's "autistic" is probably neither here nor there, I'm >> afraid, as >> it seems to be very common for people involved in computing the be >> somewhere high on the autistic spectrum (even if they are not >> 'officially' autistic). I have taken the test. I'm not telling, but I >> know what I'm talking about. >> >> So, I shall be there, I won't be shouting or chanting, but I will be >> there. I hope that the event is not hijacked by another purpose, and >> that I do not get shot by the armed police at the US Embassy there (it >> is a scarey looking place, which puts me on edge whenever I'm near). >> Strangely I also find myself wondering if the staff there are >> paying the >> London congestion charge yet, rather than ignoring it...? >> >> Just my 2c, or so. >> >> K. >> >> -- >> Kev Green, aka Kyrian. E: kyrian@ore.org <http://ore.org> WWW: >> http://kyrian.ore.org/ >> Linux/Security <http://kyrian.ore.org/Linux/Security> >> Contractor/LAMP Coder/ISP, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/ >> DJ via http://www.hellnoise.co.uk/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.goldwatches.com/ >> >> http://www.jewelerslounge.com/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> > > -- http://www.goldwatches.com/
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