flaming white hats never fail to show true colors
----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "sockz loves you" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Re: USDOJ BRAINWASHING TECHNIQUES > In some mail from sockz loves you, sie said: > > > > i agree entirely. when hackers start to kill millions of people, maybe THEN > > can we turn around and say "okay, its illegal". the governments of our > > nations commit far worse crimes on a daily basis than we do as citizens. > > Do you seriously subscribe to this logic ? > > Do you even understand how flawed this approach is ? > > It is this sort of stupidity that gives rise to suicide bombings > in the middle east that dominate the news every day. > > Put simply, two wrongs do not make a right. > > > citizens who > > are concerned about their civil rights, or are naturally curious about the > > world around them. this is why hacking should be decriminalised. > > There are ways and means for citizens to feed their curiosity. > For example, there is something called "Freedom of Information" that > is recognised by many Governments. You may not like it that not all > information is available through FoI but there are good reasons for > that but a naive player may not understand that. > > Don't like the way yours implements it or lack thereof? > > Get active politically and try get it changed. > > No, you more than likely won't be able to do that from the comfort of > your own home, you'll need to go out and talk/meet with people and > discuss things. > > Similarly, if you don't like the way the Government does something else, > get active and do something to make it change. Don't just sit there and > use it to justify hacking because that won't change or fix anything. How > much are you prepared to do to make the world a better place if you think > there are really problems with it, hmm ? Here's a hint: hacking into any > network or sending email here is not going to change a thing. > > > its a white > > collar crime that wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for corporations > > whining about losing money. > > Ok, you sound like the typical hacker who does not understand what > the word "responsibility" means or that actions have consequences. > > Hacking is no different to "break and enter". The means might > be different but that's about it. Unauthorised entry. Unless > you're going to say that "break and enter" should be a white > collar crime, too? > > > okay sure, there have been a few major digital > > protests in the past, but how are these different from real life > > demonstrations? > > Because you will often find, enshrined in law, the right to assemble > and/or protest. The typical real-life protest involves 1000s of like > minded people getting together as a show of collective strength. I'm > not sure what you are referring to by digital protests, but if you're > alluding to denial of service attacks then the difference is quite > simply that they're orchestrated by relatively few (less than 10.) > Simulating 20,000 people with a robot is nowhere near the same as > getting 20,000 people to do something of their own _free will_. > > > is not resistance, freedom of information, and activism a fundamental > > right of being human? this is no more the DOJ's world than it is my > > world, so why should there be a different set of rules for Government > > and People? > > The difference is in how you want to see them implemented. > > You want to engage in activism with unauthorised activity and gain > information through improper channels using methods that are more > representative of criminal action than good citizens. > > Get smart about what you're doing. Well, first I suppose you need to > grow up and mature, then maybe, with time, you'll understand and be > able to be smart rather than stupid about what you do to achieve the > correct goals. > > > oh and darren, no i wasn't joking about encouraging the young hacker to > > develop his skills. its a legitimate option. > > Then young hackers should practice and hone their skills in an > environment where they do not impact on anyone else, just like > responsible people do with other weapons. Maybe you should create > a "hack" network, charge people $X per month for access and let > people do what they want there. Do some basic admin and install > various software packets, etc, to make it "interesting". Oh, and > make it isolated from any and all other networks. > > > > In short, there is nothing cool or right about hacking and that > message needs to be conveyed through whatever means to impressionable > young people as part of their upbringing to ensure they grow up and > have a reasonable amount of respect for each other in the growing > digital world around them. > > Darren > _______________________________________________ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html > _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
