I Strongly agree, The middle way has to be, more secure programming, and also education your people (Students, employee's, whomever). In this way you ask both ways to think about it. And there shall always be vulnerabilities and users who don't understand or dont want to understand security, but that's life.
One wants to go right (the secure way) and the other one goes left... Anyway, instead of asking if it's a lost cause, perhaps we can all say, well these methods seem to work, lets produce a whitepaper with guidelines for programmers, and a paper with guidelines in educating your people. How's that ? ;-) HTH, cheers -- Kind regards, Remko Lodder Elvandar.org/DSINet.org www.mostly-harmless.nl Dutch community for helping newcomers on the hackerscene -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mattias Ahnberg Verzonden: donderdag 22 januari 2004 11:38 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Yes, user education is a lost cause ;-) >> "SPL" == Schmehl, Paul L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: SPL> Given this logic then, isn't it the user's fault for leaving the SPL> door open on their PC? Do you blame the home builder if the SPL> owner leaves the door unlocked? ISTM that your culture teaches SPL> you that it's the users' responsibility, not the manufacturers'. It seems like every argument in this discussion is angled into this either being the fault of the user OR the developer. Isn't it more logical to assume that there are probably a lot of things that can be improved on BOTH ends? We can not assume that the majority of users will ever know all they should know about computers and security before using one, but at the same time we can't just take ALL the blame away from the user when bad stuff happens. There must be a middle ground somewhere. I do firmly believe that software developers should be a lot more security aware, and especially in "out of the box" products. It is way better for everyone if users has to "opt-out" of security features, than to have things open by default and to "opt-in" later. /ahnberg. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html _______________________________________________ Full-disclosure mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.elvandar.org/mailman/listinfo/full-disclosure _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
