Bart, I hope no one thinks I said those things! The Dave in question is "dk [EMAIL PROTECTED]" not me, Dave Hane. Too many Dave's on this thread :-)
On Tuesday 04 May 2004 12:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dave...et al... > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 05/03/2004 05:28:43 PM: > > Harlan Carvey wrote: > > > Yes, I can agree with that...I do get the point. But who are the > > > users? Say you're an admin at a law firm...if the users are supposed > > > to be security-conscious (face it, a great many admins lack even the > > > most rudimentary security awareness), then shouldn't the admins be > > > required to have a law degree, also? How about a hospital...shouldn't > > > each admin then have to have a medical degree? > > SNIPS HERE AND THERE, but DAVE STARTS IN HERE WITH: > > I admin a small Architectural Firm with a mix of OS's, mailservers, > > webservers, > > specialized applications, workstations, laptops, plotters, printers... > > etc... > > Basically anything that has electrons move through it I am expected to > > have > > > knowledge of or at least have the number to someone who does (I don't do > > Copiers). I am also to create and manage the electronic document > > standards for > > the CAD applications and electronic document submittal, research new > > means and > > methods, etc, etc, on and on. > > > > Point of my rambling here is: When I am not doing one of the above (My > > primary job description) I am fully expected to fill in for > > Architectural Design > > and do the job of a 1st or 2nd year Architectural Intern that has a 4 > > year > > > degree in Architecture. I do all of this, for less than 30k yr and > > neither > > > posses a Degree in any of the Computer Sciences nor in any of the > > Architecture > > fields. (And for bonus points, if you carefully read my sentances you > > will see > > that I do not possess a Degree in English either! :) ) I am never > > given time > > to research or practice the Architecture side of my job, but I am > > expected to > > do it to a degree FAR greater than most admins ask the users to educate > > themselves about "The Computer" or "Windows" when they have spare time. > > > > I would love to trade shoes with them for a week and see how we'd both > > fare. > > Dave, I have to tell you that I'll bet you are in a very small minority > here, vis a vis being expected to both IT and business contribute...and > you are being rather seriously mistreated financially, by the way. > > > > I agree that harmless joking is fine...but I've seen instances in > > > which that harmless joking became part of the admin's vocabulary, > > > even in front of those same users. > > > > Well I think this may come from the frustrations of the modern American > > Business outlook that the "Computer" is nothing but a big typewriter > > glued to a > > Fax machine that produces money when the right keys are pressed > > And perhaps in part because most "Admin's" are expected to fill many > > more shoes than the co-workers they support. > > > > So I've called my users, lusers for years to ease the frustrations that > > I must > > endure daily in slowly repeating attachment mantra's, how to sync your > > palm, > > > how to change your background, why the "internet" is broke on their > > laptop (hint: > > plug in the blue cable Boss).... > > > > If *I* handled myself in an equal but opposite manner in regards to my > > assumed > > "Architecture responcibilities", I'd be out of a job. > > Going to go back here, based on your being in the minority, and say simply > that it ain't your job to perform brain surgery, defend someone in a > trial, or even tune up the chevy....and it ain't their job to know any > more than they have to to make the "tool" that their PC really is do what > they need it to do. And...since I manage close to 5000 > desktops/users...as well as the CIRT that handles this corporate > environment...trust me that my potential for frustration and aggravation > exceeds yours by factors. Do we have moments around here where we would > like to throttle someone? Of course. Do we insult/belittle them? Of > course....NOT. Hey...Dave...incoming clue: THESE PEOPLE ARE THE ONLY > REASON YOU HAVE A JOB. NO END USERS, NO COMPUTER INDUSTRY...AT > ALL...ANYWHERE. If you can't deal with the fact that they do not, as a > rule, "get it" about infosec...about netiquette, about the routine care > and feeding of today's PCs...and that they don't want to have to "get > it"...you may want to think about a place in the industry that does not > involve end-user interraction. Bearing in mind of course, that that job > too is dependent on your "Lusers". > > > I just want that door to swing BOTH ways. Until then, they are the > > Lusers and I am > > the Long Haired Freak giving up another Sunday evening tweaking the > > Bayesian filter > > so sweet Edna over in Accounting can get her Amway newsletter. > > And as long as you keep denigrating the people who are the reason you get > to pay your rent and eat...that's probably all you'll ever be. > > > But Edna ain't so sweet > > when late is my timesheet, > > or even incomplete. > > > > :) > > > > -- > > Dave > > But Edna gets you paid, and I'm betting the check is on time or you are > bitching about it. > > Cheers > > Bart > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc. > and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary. > If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or > use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibited. 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