Mary, please don't mangle my comments like that...I did not say we are wired to be bad. I said nothing like that at all. Point in fact, I said:
> >There is no "moral breakdown", as humankind is not fundamentally moral. > >Morals are learned and enforced and reinforced...not inherited or > >magically imbued. We are not pre-wired with morals, and that's not at all saying "...we are somehow wired to be bad.." (I've read a lot of your posts, Mary...thought you were more attentive than that). We are amoral, not immoral, at birth...what morals and behaviors and social codes we have, we are taught. "Thou shalt not kill" is not a genetically coded behavior...it is learned. (And by the way...the why behind "Thou shalt not kill" is "Or you will roast in hell for eternity/be obliterated by your local diety of choice", which does not sound like positive reinforcement to me...does it to you?) I did not, ever, say that we are wired to be bad...since good and bad don't exist for us until someone else teaches us the concepts. I also did not say "...that only negative consequences change it..." What I said was: > >...people cannot be made to change, therefore laws are in place > >to deter unwanted behaviors...and failing that, to punish those who are > >not deterred. Behavior modification through negative reinforcements > >works...always has, most likely always will. > > Either you have never parented or you did not care if your child stuck his/her hand on a hot stove burner (If you told your child "Don't do that or you will be burned!" you just used negative reinforcement). Positive reinforcement "only" reinforces/rewards desired behaviors (that "only" does not imply that this is a little deal...rewarding desired behaviors is a fine thing)...it does not change undesired behaviors. Negative reinforcement is a vehicle of behavioral change. Think about it, and then give me an example of using positive reinforcement to effect change, without it coming off as bribery; i.e. "If you stop doing XXX I'll give you YYY". That method of behavior modification ultimately tends to breed extortionists, don't you think? Anyway, this is Full Disclosure, not Psychology Today...I just dislike being misquoted... cheers Bart Lansing Manager, Desktop Services Kohl's IT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/08/2004 06:01:35 PM: Judicious snips... > > And I don't agree with the rather cynical outlook of one poster who claims > we are somehow wired to be bad and that only negative consequences change > it. Sounds rather like a handly rationalization to me. > > > -- Mary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Banta, Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "morning_wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Hacking into private files, my credit card > purchases, personal correspondence or anything that is mine is trespassing > and criminal. > > > Am i the only one concerned at the childish behavious on these mailing > lists? > I've not been reading for so long, but in my second or third email to > these lists i've been told that someone 'doesn't care' about me and my > 'weak brain'. > And now this 'OK. You're wrong.' ? > Is this neccesary? > I beleive Morning_Wood raises some good points. > > > _______________________________________________ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc. and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at 262-703-7000. CAUTION: Internet and e-mail communications are Kohl's property and Kohl's reserves the right to retrieve and read any message created, sent and received. Kohl's reserves the right to monitor messages by authorized Kohl's Associates at any time without any further consent. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
