My 2 Abes: I'm not going to go into my exact pricing model, since I think Hal and Steve were more aiming for the process of pricing.
I typically do a wireframe/story board at no cost - typically this is enough to get my foot further in, allowing time for mockup/prototype. The mockup/prototype always varies, and a I price separately (I'm not unwilling to bend and sway here, since the bulk of the project will be in the coding, where I *try* to be firm). At this point, I may or may not have the gig - if I do .... I then architecht the application, according to FB3 standards. This allows me to know precisely how many fuses there are. At this point, I count all the fuses, and come up with an time figure (I found that 90 minutes per fuse seems to work well) knowing. I then usually factor in a risk management figure - typically 25% of the total time for the fuses. I then multiply by a rate. If there's anything beyond that (training, an SLA, hosting, etc) that is figured separately, as miles always vary. --- Billy Cravens -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 3:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: how much are we worth? I sent this off-list to Hal and Steve, but this is as good as place as any I suppose. I'm very new to the independent thing. But you guys asked for feedback so here it goes. Most of my clients so far have been very small businesses and organizations. I give them a call (or they call me) and in a 10 minute phone interview, I get an idea of what they want me to do for them. I have a directory system and a CMS that I try to sell most of my clients on as an ASP solution. I've found through nearly ten years in IT that IMHO nearly everything breaks down into one of these two things or a slight variation thereof. So, most of the time, I'm just talking with them about what their needs are. Usually it's just a site and a form or two. I start on the wireframe after our first conversation. Then I schedule a face-to-face with them to show them what I have and work on the wireframe with them. I don't charge them anything yet, I'm still trying to make a sale at this point. We spend up to an hour on the wireframe together. Then I pull a sketch pad out of my bag and use color markers to get an idea of the look of the site. I call this storyboard, and it usually just takes 15 minutes. I let them know that the wireframe and storyboard are the first steps in this Standard Development Process I use. I let them know this part is free. After I impressed their sox off with all of this, I tell them my prices. I charge $100 to $200 /hr. depending on who they are and what they need done. Once we're done with the Prototype (the design) things go very fast. Once they're sold, I write up a legal contract and we both sign a copy. Sometimes I give a general time estimate after my session with the client, but most of the time, I give a general estimate after the prototype is done. I do let them know that the more they can tell me up front about how they want their site to look the more money they save. Because I don't have to spend a lot of time pulling that information out of them. Then I charge a monthly license/hosting fee with a little discount for a two year contract. Regards, Drew Harris -----Original Message----- From: Brian J. LeRoux [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: how much are we worth? With regards to the recent "conversations" newsletter from hal helms and steve nelson I thought I'd fire my .02 cents in on how we figure out how much to charge our clients. If you have no idea wtf I'm talking about then goto halhelms.com and sign up for the occasional newsletter. its good. really. So first off, we're canadian so the prices should be divided by two for an idea of what we're worth in us dollars. And yeah, we're cheap. I'd also like to say here and now that the MOST IMPORTANT thing to do is sign a contract before you even THINK about doing ANYTHING for a client. Its sad but every person I've worked for without a contract (I feel) has taken advantage of us. A contract allows you the power to say, "The job is done." Usually after 2-3 face to face meetings we typically break it down by: - First figuring out physical hardware and software requirements. (dedicated or shared hosting? / sqlserver or access / etc) - Logically, the cost of hosting is hand in hand with this. In the past we shopped around and gave the client three quotes. Now we are moving in to do it ourselves and make an 'all inclusive' package. - Next we consult with the client to get ALL the content up front in some form. It doesn't have to be polished. Doesn't have to be complete. We just need to know a realistic idea of how much content we're dealing with as it affects the design drastically. Be it graphic or dynamic. By content I mean pictures and verbage. Not code. We learned this one after doing a flash site for a client who knew the sections of the site but not content. Once we'd finished everything we gave him the ability to plug in the content. OF COURSE he had volumes of verbage and HUNDREDS of pictures which of course made the design warp freakishly. He called us and said, "WHAT DID YOU DO IT LOOKS TERRIBLE?!?!". Grrr... makes me mad thinking about it. But it was our fault for not anticipating this.. - We then work with a graphic designer to develop 3 mockups. We bill him at $100Cdn per mockup. He charges us $50. Graphic designer partnerships are great for those not interested in design too btw. Designers are uninterested in writing code. By forming an 'alliance' we give designers the ability to market themselves as having total solutions for all situations (not just brochureware). Any work they bring us we pay 5% of the contract and first right to refuse all the design work. Everyone's happy. Then we estimate the actual nitty gritty of the project by the following criteria: database design, developemnt: $150CDN per hour html,javascript,presentation stuff: $65CDN per hour flash/actionscripting, etc: $90 CDN per hour (cf/asp/asp.net/php)serverside coding,configuring,etc: $150CDN per hour But how do we resolve these prices? How long do we know it will take to do the project? We guess. :) As I gain more experience I find that I already have most situations already coded in some form on my hd anyhow.. We don't take pictures, do graphics or develop content. BUT if a client requires these things we say, "I'd be more than happy to include this in our quote" and we subsequently find professionals to do this and we bill them at double their asking price. Another trick we've found that helps in winning proposals is making sure that we deliver within 24hours business days or not from the last meeting we're decide we're 'on the same page' or (hehe.. I love this jargon its funny) 'seeing eye to eye'. please reply, I think we can all learn somthing by how eachother approaches this. at the very least maybe we can start fixing our rates! ;) ==^================================================================ This email was sent to: [email protected] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bUrFMa.bV0Kx9 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================
