It is my understanding that Eva wanted the following message to go to "the list", as well as to myself (BMcC).... Eva Durant wrote: > > > > Democracy can only work if there are > > > 1. People educated to be able to and be confident to have opinions > > > on all decisionmaking issues. > > > 2. They have all the information easily available for all > > > decisionmaking > > > 3. They can see the direct consequence of theexecution of their > > > decisions > > > 4. they have instant recall of elected representatives if their > > > decisions are not implemented. > > > > This is what I find meaningful about classical Greek > > *democracy*: there were *no* REPRESENTATIVES! In "The Greek > > Polis and the Creation of Democracy" (in _Philosophy, > > Politics, Autonomy_), Castoriadis hammers home this > > basic point: representation and democracy are *incompatible* > > (p. 108). The very existence of a class of "representatives" > > reduces the "represented" to an object the "representatives" > > manipulate to keep themselves in power (America's "political > > parties" are a good example of this; Lenin's "party" was > > another). > > > > If representative democracy is set up around the above > guidelines, I think you'd find a much improved mechanism. > However, I cannot see why a system with direct decisionmaking > shouldn't function, if there is a free flow of all information to > all the decisionmakers, e.g. people with computers in their homes. > > There are probably x more solutions and no doubt all of them > will be tried before the most efficient is found. the main > point is for everyone to have the same excess to information > and decisionmaking. Education/experience for confident critical thinking > would also come eventually. > > > > > > > Only give up democracy if it has REALLY been tried and failed. > > > even than, first weigh up the alternatives... > > > > > > > >Athens existed -- at least for a while. It provides > > > > >"proof of concept". > > [snip] > > > The greeks defined their democracy and it worked for them in the set > > > limitation of their times. I though history is a science that uses > > > written sources as data. Why shouldn't we except this? > > > Our admittedly limited bourgois democracy is still far better than any present >and > > > past tyrannies and leads us for better future versions. We are > > > humans, we are learning from the mistakes of the past, that is what > > > science is for. > > [snip] > > > > > Ah! But might we not also learn from the, > > admittedly rare and partial, *SUCCESSES* of > > the past? The Athenian agora? The [Japanese] > > Heian court? -- of which latter Ivan Morris wrote > > (see my http://www.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/essays.html > > page for longer excerpt): > > > > "For us who inhabit a planet which, at least so > > far as communications are concerned, > > has become a single unit, it requires a real > > effort of imagination to picture a state of > > affairs in which men in most parts of the world > > linger in a state of cultural obscurity, > > absorbed almost entirely in the brute struggle > > for survival and power, while here and > > there, often on widely separated points of > > the globe, civilizations shine or flicker > > like ships' lights on a dark ocean...." > > (Ivan Morris, The World of the Shining Prince, > > pp. 11-12) > > > > "proof of concept" -- a better world is > > not only thinkable (e.g., Rabelais' Theleme), > > but it has at least fragmentarily *happened*. > > > > ok, so I cannot remember what this agora was and > have never heard about the other one you mentioned. > Some feudal systems had "booms" with some > enlightened monarch, who actually managed to > make progress in some way. I cannot think of > any of the modern time dictatorships to achieve any > progress in the long run. > > Eva > > > > \brad mccormick > > > > -- > > Mankind is not the master of all the stuff that exists, but > > Everyman (woman, child) is a judge of the world. > > > > Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 914.238.0788 / 27 Poillon Rd, Chappaqua, NY 10514-3403 USA > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > <![%THINK;[SGML]]> Visit my website: http://www.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/ > >
