This is a kind response I had when I asked for help from scientists... Jay seems to forget that all "laws" whether physical or social, are only valid under specific conditions and systems. Jay is not interested anymore (back in the ivory tower?) ... but as he says, irrationality shouldn't go unchallenged... > > Obviously, you are mistaken David. There are no exceptions to the laws > > of thermodynamics. They apply everywhere -- even in your backyard. This is a true statement so far as it stands, but he's ignoring the fact that the second law has it's exceptions built into the law. Using the quick summary form "Entropy always rises in a closed system", you can say yes, there are no exceptions. However, the law limits itself to a certain class of situations. If the system isn't closed, the law is still valid -- entropy still rises in closed systems -- but it doesn't *apply* to the open system. > > The laws of thermodynamics tell us that you can not burn a barrel > > of oil twice. It's like gravity -- you can try it at home. This isn't really a very accurate statement... Chemistry tells us you can't burn a barrel of oil twice -- because when you burn it, you change it into something other than oil! It's not oil anymore. It's a meaningless jab. You want to decrease entropy in an open system in your own home? Plug your fridge in. Now you're forcing heat to pass from a cold body to a hot body, and your crystalizing water into ice and such. You can do this because you're consuming electrical power provided from outside the fridge "system". You want to decrease entropy in an open system all over the world? Turn the sun on. Now you've got a huge energy resource to draw on to do all the entropy-decreasing you want (like powering your fridge)... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James H.G. Redekop | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
