At 07:16 AM 1/29/99 +0000, Mark Measday wrote:
>Mentioning a version of your comments to a central european-born manager,
I was a
>little surprised to receive the following tirade back I paraphrase 'Why would
>Direct Democracy be a good system? Intelligent people know from experience
that
>most other people are idiots. Therefore most decisions will be made by
idiots for
>idiots with idiots,. Those people are idiots. They will have only
themselves, the
>idiots, to blame'
Are all intelligent people non-idiots?
Are most intelligent people non-idiots?
Do some people who consider themselves intelligent have limited experience
from which to make such harsh, polarized, one-dimensional judgements of
their fellow-humans?
etc
I do not value your friend's opinion
What does he know of DD?
>With the visceral, if obviously intellectually inconsequential, anglosaxon
desire
>for fairplay, tolerance and conflict-avoidance (Chamberlain at Munich
comes to
>mind), I agreed pro tem, whilst mentally noting that I woudl like to ask
whether
>you would be happy to include such a person in your direct democracy (or
not).
by definition, he would have one vote
I would be neither happy nor unhappy
You may be exhibit both tolerance and conflict-avoidance -- while I strive
for the first, I have few tendencies to the second. But then I am Celtic,
not anglo-saxon
If
>you do, he will destroy it of course, and if you don't then of course it
destroys
>itself.
I do not attribute to him any more power than one vote, so I cannot accept
your view
>Do you then have to destroy him to preserve your democracy? And what kind
>of democracy is it that has to preserve itself by destroying its elitists?
The whole question is hypothetical.
But I do not believe anyone has to destroy him
Nor do I believe that all elitists are so narrow-minded
I have little experience of Central Europe, and I am not advocating DD for
Central Europe.
I have met several E/Central. Europeans in Canada, and I am not unfamiliar
with the characteristics you describe.
In Canada such people are not numerous, and have little influence in the
circles I move in.
The biggest obstacle in Canada would appear to come from political,
academic, and business Elites whose worlds are bound up in money and power
-- obstacles enough without paying undue attention to people like your friend.
I sincerely believe that DD is viable in Canada, US, and UK, the three
countries with which I am most familiar
Colin Stark
>Colin Stark wrote:
>
>> At 11:50 AM 1/26/99 -1000, Jay Hanson wrote:
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Edward Weick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >
>> >>and social complexity grew. While hunting and gathering societies needed
>> >>only transitory hierarchies, more complex societies needed permanent
ones.
>> >>However, there is no reason on earth why these couldn't be democratic,
>> >>allowing a particular leadership limited powers and only a limited
tenure.
>> >
>> >Democracy makes no sense. If society is seeking a leader with the best
>> >skills, the selection should be based on merit -- testing and
experience --
>> >not popularity. Government by popularity contest is a stupid idea.
>> >
>> >Jay
>>
>> Democracy does not mean putting the most "popular" candidate in the job. A
>> broad range of people (e.g. the workers in a factory) might choose a
>> DIFFERENT leader from what the Elite would choose, but they will not be
>> more likely to make a "stupid" choice.
>>
>> But beyond the "choice of a leader" is the question of the "accountability
>> of the leader".
>>
>> In our N. American democratic (so-called) systems the leader is not
>> accountable to ANYONE (i.e. is a virtual Dictator), except that once every
>> 4 or 5 years the people (those who think it worthwhile to vote), can kick
>> the bum out and choose another gentleperson who will be equally
>> UNACCOUNTABLE, and who will thus, corrupted by power, become a BUM also!
>>
>> Hence the concept of Direct Democracy:
>> " a SYSTEM of citizen-initiated binding referendums whereby voters can
>> directly amend, introduce and remove policies and laws"
>>
>> Colin Stark
>> Vice-President
>> Canadians for Direct Democracy
>> Vancouver, B.C.
>> http://www.npsnet.com/cdd/
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Listserv)
>
>--
>
>________________________________________________________
>
>Josmarian SA [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
>UK tel/fax: 0044.181.747.9167
>French tel/fax:0033.450.20.94.92
>Swiss tel/fax: 0041.22.733.01.13
>
>L'aiuola che ci fa tanto feroci. Divina Commedia, Paradiso, XXII, 151
>_________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
