Title: Re: How to we get from here to there when there keeps changing
RH asks:
Does work serve a purpose to the soul?
TL:
The soul has become a defunct theory in our modern? age. I thank you for bringing it up for I still believe in a "soul", though perhaps I might not use the Christian word as it is very ambigous. Perhaps, in my terms, I might use a word such as entity or psyche in the Sethian sense to refer to that aspect of us the incarnates and reincarnates for purpose. In that sense, "Does work serve a purpose to the soul?", I would answer in a general sense no - though there are no limits and the psyche may use work to set up situations in which the important work which is the learnings of values, choices and the development of talents, may take place. In our less spiritual time, when character has become a value represented by net worth, rather than the wisdom that accumulates to an elder or shaman, work in the sense of "paid work" has become more valuable than personal growth. Our ancestors would surely find this most strange and look at us as if we are deranged - and we are.
RH:
Does play?
TL:
As play has within it the idea of enjoyment or doing something for the joy of doing it, our ancestors would say that play is good work. However our corporate and political leaders of today would insist that work is serious and that you must apply yourself and do what has to be done as defined by others. That the highest goal is a good career track and that everything should be subverted to learning something that others would be willing to pay you to do. Nirvana, to them is the gold watch and a good pension. Surely our elders of other times would find this most strange and look at us as if we are deranged - and we are.
RH:
When is play work and vice-versa?
TL:
Play is good work when we learn about ourselves, our relationships with others and the Earth and the spirit world. Work, is sometimes the discipline that you impose on yourself for a particular result, like enduring a sweat lodge or seeking a vision. Though the particular discipline may have within it a procedure, one enters into it with the desire to attain a result that is totally different than a pay cheque.
RH:
When is consumption gluttony?
TL:
When you take more than you need. Gluttony has been raised to a virtue in our current society. Surely our elders of other times would find this most strange and look at us as if we are deranged - and we are. Surely our elders of other times would find this most strange and look at us as if we are deranged - and we are.
RH:
It all sounds suspiciously Calvinist.
Is that what has been meant by the Swiss model?
TL:
In this model, cleanliness leads to God's favour. Hard work - for others or for the pursuit of gluttony is a virtue in God's eyes. Suffering and lack of joy are the hallmarks of Christian growth and virtue. To judge that others are not working hard enough or suffering enough or not practising the virtues of gluttony requires the discipline of the authorities. Surely our elders of other times would find this most strange and look at us as if we are deranged - and we are.
In my mind, we are deviant. I just saw the movie "Instinct" - it is informative and it takes it's general outline from some of the ideas of Daniel Quinn who wrote Ishmael and should be required reading for every human being - because, that is what we are - human and being - and both are terribly important, but in our current time, most of us are only half, we are only human.
Respectfully,
Thomas Lunde
From: "Ray E. Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Or maybe we should find a way to keep out of each other's
business. Does work serve a purpose to the soul? Does
play? When is play work and vice-versa? When is
consumption gluttony? It all sounds suspiciously Calvinist.
Is that what has been meant by the Swiss model?
REH
Victor Milne wrote:
Hi Thomas, The sentence below reminded me of a classic science-fiction story written in the late 40's or early 50's. I can't recall the title or the author (Frederik Pohl???). The conflict arises when a young couple from very different socio-economic backgrounds get married. The young woman had lived with her father and mother in a small cottage, a fairly spartan existence with the father going off to work five days a week and the mother doing the housework--this was the 50's. The bridegroom lives in much more luxurious quarters, works only a few hours a week, and seems to spend most of his time purchasing things and deciding what to purchase. By the end of the story the young bride is totally stressed out and in grave doubt whether she can adapt to a lower-class lifestyle with the man she loves. He is required by the state to buy all these things and has to earn the right to work more and purchase less. Victor
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Lunde <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: June 15, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: FW: How to we get from here to there when there keeps changing
Perhaps we need a professional class of consumers to create a demand for all those who still find value in work.
