Tom, You said:
"Though I applaud your stated goal, it sounds like the old survival of the fittest argument to me with slightly different rules. In other words, if a person produces nothing of "value" according the current market, or if for a year or two he is unemployed due to circumstances beyond his control - well, no bounties for you my friend - please go die somewhere" If a person produces nothing of value, why should he able to claim anything from me. I would be happy (say) to provide him with food if he provides me with clothes. But, if he cannot produce anything I want, why should I give him anything of mine? Well, it might be charitable for me to work an extra few hours a week and give the result to him, but this has nothing to do with justice. It is perhaps charity. But, charity has nothing to do with justice. However, perhaps I won't give him anything (because I don't want to). He needn't worry. You will give him food, clothing and shelter. Won't you? If a person is unable to work because he is ill, or something, then that's all right because you will support him. If, however, he cannot find work because the economic system makes it impossible, I suggest we get to work to find out why work (which is always needed because there is so much to so) doesn't seem to be available. Of course if we spend all our time slapping palliatives on the problems, we won't have time to think about why some people are in trouble. Anyway, giving charity does give us a certain sense of well-being and perhaps even a trace of superiority. If you do nothing to find out why such societal problems occur, you are certainly maintaining injustice. If you force me to contribute to the unfortunate people in your examples you are also committing an injustice. Incidentally, the Basic Income as it is offered is an obvious palliative. It does nothing to lessen the injustice that spurs support for it, but worse, it diverts attention to the real causes of poverty and deprivation. Of course, there is no God of Work. However, nothing can be produced by us without exertion (or Labor, or Work). We don't like to exert and do so only because we must - if we are to get the things we want. That may be the psychological pressure for us to think longingly of machines doing all the work for us, or a Basic Income that will give us what we need without working. But, I'll leave the psychological analysis to those who love to do it. Harry ******************************************** Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 Tel: 818 352-4141 -- Fax: 818 353-2242 http://haledward.home.comcast.net ******************************************** -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Lunde Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] FW Basic Income sites > Tom, > > As you have probably gathered, I have been working for most of > the last 50 years to obtain justice for all. Justice doesn't mean > a chicken in every pot, or a BI. IT means no more than that a > person will keep what he produces and shares equally the bounties > of nature. Thomas: Though I applaud your stated goal, it sounds like the ol survival of the fittest argument to me with slightly different rules. In other words, if a person produces nothing of "value" according the current market, or if for a year or two he is unemployed due to circumstances beyond his control - well, no bounties for you my friend - please go die somewhere. > > So, the problem with some of your remarks is that there are > consequences. > > Such as the threshold, something that occurs often in economics > but is given a variety of names. > > If one gets $900 for no work - but $1,100 (net after taxes $800) > if you work - why should you work? I might choose unemployment > plus welfare as a preferred alternative (perhaps with some > off-tax work under the counter). This is done everywhere now. Thomas: Ah, the God of Work, how will we ever dethrone him. I would work because I had aspirations to have more than the Basic Income. <snip> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
