OK -- so Bush Senior and Saddam Hussein talked of many Middle East matters. I've never said that they didn't and I would have expected them to.
But remember that there were tens of thousands of Iraqi troops massed on the border. So when the American Ambassador to Kuwait says to Saddam Hussein:
"We have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait."
then if that wasn't a "green light" for Saddam Hussein, I don't know what was.
It wasn't permission by Bush Senior and it wasn't encouragement by him either but if that wasn't a statement of apparent neutrality I don't know what was.
It was either wishy-washy of Bush Senior, or extreme incompetence of April Glaspie and Bush jointly, or it was deviousness by Bush Senior of the most extreme sort. Please do remember once again that there were tens of thousands of Iraqi troops at the border and they didn't get there overnight. If ever there was an occasion for Bush Senior to instruct his ambassador to say to Saddam "Do not invade", this was it.
Keith
At 15:13 20/05/2005 -0700, you wrote:
Keith
This was the Iraqi transcript of the conversation between
Saddam, Tariq Azizhis, and April Glaspie, the American
Ambassador. It was translated by the New York Times.
This is from my previous post. I snipped a lot, but left in the
relevant parts.
Dont know where Coughlin got his variation but I suppose
books must be sold no matter what. Or maybe he had a
different translator
Harry
This was the Iraqi transcript of the conversation
between Saddam, Tariq Azizhis, and April Glaspie, the
American Ambassador. It was translated by the New York
Times.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sept. 23rd, 1990
[HP: Although we "backed" Iraq, apparently it was not
enough to quench the desire for "better relations.]
GLASPIE: As you know, he (the president) directed the
United States Administration to reject the suggestion
of implementing trade sanctions.
HUSSEIN: There is nothing left for us to buy from
America. Only wheat. Because every time we want to buy
something, they say it is forbidden. I am afraid that
one day you will say, "You are going to make gunpowder
out of wheat."
GLASPIE: I have a direct instruction from the President
to seek better relations with Iraq.
--------------------------------------------------------
[HP: As we are told constantly, the US gave the "green
light" to Saddam to invade Kuwait. Here is the "green
light]
GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here
for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to
rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We
understand that and our opinion is that you should have
the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no
opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border
disagreement with Kuwait.
I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late
60's. The instruction we had during this period was
that we should express no opinion on this issue and
that the issue is not associated with America. James
Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize
this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem
using any suitable methods via Klibi or via President
Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are
solved quickly.
[And]
GLASPIE: Frankly, we can see only that you have
deployed massive troops in the south. Normally that
would not be any of our business. But when this happens
in the context of what you said on your national day,
then when we read the details in the two letters of the
Foreign Minister, then when we see the Iraqi point of
view that the measures taken by the U.A.E. and Kuwait
is, in the final analysis, parallel to military
aggression against Iraq, then it would be reasonable
for me to be concerned.
[Klibi was the Secretary of the Arab League.]
-------------------
[HP: The "suitable methods" were talks with those Arab
leaders. In fact during the conversation they discussed
the upcoming talks. There was certainly no "green
light" given for an invasion of Kuwait. Here's more on
the suitable methods.]
GLASPIE: Mr. President, it would be helpful if you
could give us an assessment of the effort made by your
Arab brothers and whether they have achieved anything.
HUSSEIN: On this subject, we agreed with President
Mubarak that the Prime Minister of Kuwait would meet
with the deputy chairman of the Revolution Command
Council in Saudi Arabia, because the Saudis initiated
contact with us, aided by President Mubarak's efforts.
He just telephoned me a short while ago to say the
Kuwaitis have agreed to that suggestion.
GLASPIE: Congratulations.
HUSSEIN: A protocol meeting will be held in Saudi
Arabia. Then the meeting will be transferred to Baghdad
for deeper discussion directly between Kuwait and Iraq.
We hope we will reach some result. We hope that the
long-term view and the real interests will overcome
Kuwaiti greed.
GLASPIE: May I ask you when you expect Sheik Saad to
come to Baghdad?
HUSSEIN: I suppose it would be on Saturday or Monday at
the latest. I told brother Mubarak that the agreement
should be in Baghdad Saturday or Sunday. You know that
brother Mubarak's visits have always been a good omen.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[The Ambassadress was concerned about troop movements
toward Kuwait, but pleased about talks to defuse the situation.
So, the 'green light' was given to the talks that were taking place.]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*******************************
Henry George School of Social Science
of Los Angeles
Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042
818 352-4141
*******************************
From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Wishy-washy Bush Senior -- was[Futurework] America's experiment with communism (ca. 1933-2000)
Harry,
Bush Senior had a period of eight days in which to send a simple message to Saddam: "Do not invade Kuwait or we will punish you." He did not do so. He was wish-washy. See further:
At 16:04 16/05/2005 -0700, you wrote:
Keith,
You have probably forgotten but the wishy-washy didn't happen.
It's just another of these things that are repeated until it becomes true.
I sent the actual transcript to FW a couple of years ago.
In fact, the two were talking about the peace talks that were taking place between Kuwait, Egypt and Iraq.
Not so.
The Ambassadress - pointing out that the US had no say in this matter wished the talks well (as I remember). I might be able to find the actual excerpt again.
I think that Saddam invaded two or three weeks later.
Harry
Let's have your evidence, then. Mine follows. This is from the updated edition of Con Coughlin's book, "Saddam: The Secret Life" (pp250-251) Pan Macmillan, 2005. As far as I'm aware Coughlin's book is considered to be objective and as accurate as it's possible to be so far. (In the following, Glaspie is April Glaspie, the American Ambassador to Kuwait. Saddam's "bellicosity" below refers to Saddam's threat that "we will deploy pressure and force".)
<<<<
According to a transcript of the conversation between Glaspie and Saddam, which was leaked by the Iraqis, and whose veracity has never been denied by the U.S. State Department, Ambassador Glaspie, rather than responding to Saddam's bellicosity, replied simply, "We have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait." She went on to compliment Saddam on his "extraordinary efforts" to rebuild Iraq after the war with Iran. And when Saddam reiterated his claim that the United States was supporting Kuwaiti attempts to undermine the Iraqi economy, she replied, "President Bush is an intelligent man. He is not going to declare an economic war against Iraq." Finally Glaspie said that she had been instructed "in the spirit of friendship" to ascertain Saddam's intentions with regard to Kuwait, which, from the American point of view, was the main purpose of the meeting. Saddam repeated his contention that Kuwait was the aggressor, because it had deliberately driven down the oil price, thereby threatening the livelihoods of Iraqis, "harming even the milk our children drink and the pension of the widow who lost her husband during the war, the pensions of the orphans who lost their parents." He concluded the meeting by stating that, if an agreement was not reached with Kuwait, "then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."
Glaspie apparently came away from the meeting believing that Saddam was full of bluster, and was not intent on invading Kuwait. Five days later she flew back to Washington to consult with President Bush. Three days after that Iraq invaded Kuwait. When details of Glaspie's meeting with Saddam were published by the Iraqis in Baghdad, the forty-eight-year-old career diplomat, who had wide experience of the Arab world, was accused of, at best, naivete, or, at worst, having given Saddam a green light" to invade Kuwait. It was an accusation she rigorously denied. In an interview published in the New York Times in late 1990, she said: "Obviously I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait. Every Kuwaiti and Saudi, every analyst in the Western world, was wrong too."
>>>>
Keith
Keith Hudson, Bath, England, <www.evolutionary-economics.org>
Keith Hudson, Bath, England, <www.evolutionary-economics.org>
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